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thats like the perfect example of how pepole are willing to ignore and disclaim a particular entry in the official main Final Fantasy lineage (ie, the numbered FFs) to suit what they believe is a 'real' FF.
On many counts, FFXI is a real FF, and I really shouldn't have to explain or validate myself. Square Enix themselves think so, and thats good enough, really.
But really, as much as its an MMORPG, it is also a very traditional FF and is more true to the series than FF7, FF8, FF10, FF12 and FF13, maybe even combined.
And I say this in terms of crystals, chocobo, moogles, magic, Cid, airships, jobs, monsters and so on.
Unfortunately, a good MMORPG is never short. And you have to play more. You should want to play more. FFXI was a little punishing in the past because thats how all MMORPGs (before WoW) were - not casual friendly.. but I think XIV will probably be a lot more relaxed in that sense.
I'm still looking forward to it. Seeing as how its being managed by the same dev team who did FFXI and I thoroughly enjoy FFXI's mission (basically main storyline) cutscenes.. I cannot wait to see how XIV's will turn out, in HD, voice-acted goodness.
It is a MMORPG, not a main installment like it's formers. This is why a lot of people just skip it's entry into the franchise..
At the time FF XI was released I was too young to get into online games with monthly fees(No cash and no credit card) and now it seems redundant to buy it, I will give FF XIV a try though.
I´m not a big fan of online games. I never played FF11 and i wont play FF14. I think the story of an online game will never be as good as the story of a game which is not online. And i dont know why, i just dont like FF online xD
Thank you. I'm glad someone agrees with me instead of calling me ignorant. And I'm sure there is a great number of people who feel the same way. Online just isn't the same.
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"To them... we are just pets. I've... been so blind. I was born into a fal'Cie world, raised on a fal'Cie leash, without a master to follow. My life had no purpose."
-Lightning, Final Fantasy XIII
I LOVE how FF XIV looks and cant wait to play it. I probably cant afford it now so I need to get a job or something... I wish they would just may you pay a rediculous amount for the game when you buy it and then let you play as much as you want free but... what else you gonna do?
i think thats the biggest part of the misconception about FFXI. its not like most other online games in that it actually has a real storyline - one that directly involves your character (as opposed to a backstory that your character 'chases'/follows)
Its drawbacks are mainly that for a PS2 FF it does lack voice acting (which in understandable given the sheer size of the game and in-game text) so its a little bit more like PS1 FFs in terms of story-telling, except you do get cool in-game cutscenes. Theres also no FMV in the game other than the opening. The other thing is that its initial stories/cutscene quality kinda pale in comparison with the laters ones that come, likely because the developers get better at what they do.
But other than that, FFXI tells a very rich and compelling story. Its style is different from X or XII tho. X is mostly a character study, and XII politic driven. XI is mostly plot/scenario-driven.
edit: i don't think its fair to XI to say 'online isn't the same', because its a similar argument to '3d isnt the same' or 'voice acted isn't the same'. It isn't meant to be the same. Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor, and with FFXI, it so happens that being online is one major part of this. At its root, it is still an FF game - with its story, characters, plot elements, and so on.
FFXI is more Final Fantasy than Crisis Core, Advent Children, X-2, Revenant Wings, etc combined. Maybe Agito and Versus too, but I wouldn't know since its not out yet. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or being very very stubborn.
Dissidia, based on the main FF series is direct proof of this. Nothing from series spin-offs are in it. Nothing from secondary FF franchises (Tactics, Crystal Chronicles, Chocobo series) is in it, but XI is clearly in there.
Last edited by spirawase; Oct 26 2009 at 07:33 AM..
edit: i don't think its fair to XI to say 'online isn't the same', because its a similar argument to '3d isnt the same' or 'voice acted isn't the same'. It isn't meant to be the same. Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor, and with FFXI, it so happens that being online is one major part of this. At its root, it is still an FF game - with its story, characters, plot elements, and so on.
Except that voice acting and 3D are clear steps forward in technology, where an MMO is an utterly different kind of game. There's a big evident difference, and whether XI is a mainstream FF or not (it is, of course) that fact is made clear by just how many of the fans passed that one up altogether. It'd be similar to the next installment of Final Fantasy being an RTS, as long as you had units that level up. I really think these MMOs should be spin-offs, myself, but then again they'd sell less if they didn't belong to the main franchise.
so being able to go online isn't a step forward in technology. this conversation wouldnt have been possible without the advent of the internet. is that not a step forward in technology?
an MMORPG is a different kind of game, but it is still an RPG (hence the part of the term) non RPGS MMOs do exist out there.. and they're really not fun to play. The RTS concept already happened in FFXII:RW, but the moment you add leveling up to it, its no longer a pure RTS just as it cannot be a pure RPG either. To that extent, a lot of FFs arent pure RPGs, since for example, you don't actually have levels in FF2, or in FFXII, there are adventure elements as well.. but seriously, this is an argument of semantics.
Whether XI is mainstream or not depends on whether Square Enix wants it to be. Using popularity as a gauge is a logical fallacy. And if you want to take that line of argument, a ton of people passed on other FFs as well but nobody seems to mention it as much.
Considering FFXI had approximately 650,000 subscribers at the peak of its popularity, surely that is enough players to pass off as mainstream.
At least your last statement has a half-truth in it. FFXI wouldn't have as many subscribers as it did if it weren't an FF title, but Square Enix wouldn't be where it is today without having a popular/bankable MMORPG. Some people just fail to realise how much money FFXI has made for Square Enix. (i'll give you a hint, more than every other FF)
I prefer I good Storyline with an END than a massive game full of retarded's, you will never have a conclusion of anything about everything in these kind of games. You just kill, level up, kill, level up.
This is not my type.
__________________
"Lightning's fellings is like a static electricity, you can't see it but if you were touch it you could feel the shock."
i think thats the biggest part of the misconception about FFXI. its not like most other online games in that it actually has a real storyline - one that directly involves your character (as opposed to a backstory that your character 'chases'/follows)
Its drawbacks are mainly that for a PS2 FF it does lack voice acting (which in understandable given the sheer size of the game and in-game text) so its a little bit more like PS1 FFs in terms of story-telling, except you do get cool in-game cutscenes. Theres also no FMV in the game other than the opening. The other thing is that its initial stories/cutscene quality kinda pale in comparison with the laters ones that come, likely because the developers get better at what they do.
But other than that, FFXI tells a very rich and compelling story. Its style is different from X or XII tho. X is mostly a character study, and XII politic driven. XI is mostly plot/scenario-driven.
edit: i don't think its fair to XI to say 'online isn't the same', because its a similar argument to '3d isnt the same' or 'voice acted isn't the same'. It isn't meant to be the same. Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor, and with FFXI, it so happens that being online is one major part of this. At its root, it is still an FF game - with its story, characters, plot elements, and so on.
FFXI is more Final Fantasy than Crisis Core, Advent Children, X-2, Revenant Wings, etc combined. Maybe Agito and Versus too, but I wouldn't know since its not out yet. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or being very very stubborn.
Dissidia, based on the main FF series is direct proof of this. Nothing from series spin-offs are in it. Nothing from secondary FF franchises (Tactics, Crystal Chronicles, Chocobo series) is in it, but XI is clearly in there.
How isn't it fair to say "Online isn't the same"?
What makes XI any more of a Final Fantasy than any other FF related title?
Quote:
Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor
If this particular line is true, then they must all be equal regardless. There are many titles that appeal to different people because we all don't like the same things in the world.
Some regard FFXII as deviating away from the series and failing while others see it as the best title yet. Does that make the people not in favor of the deviation ignorant?
Personally, what shits me is people saying it's not a true Final Fantasy just because it's online. Despite having what - arguably - makes Final Fantasy what it is, people are always saying "OOH, DUN COUNT", simply because they don't like MMOs. Using that thinking, I don't like FFX, therefore it doesn't count as a proper Final Fantasy title.
It's easy to tell the people who don't have a clue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKK
I prefer I good Storyline with an END than a massive game full of retarded's, you will never have a conclusion of anything about everything in these kind of games. You just kill, level up, kill, level up.
This is not my type.
This is a perfect example. I'd bet my face you've never played an MMORPG before. The story does end. It just so happens you can continue on doing arbitrary things after that. Guess what? EVERY SINGLE FINAL FANTASY GAME IS LIKE THAT. You don't save after killing the final boss. You know the story is finished, but you can just piss around doing whatever you want - non-essential side quests, item gathering, monster smashing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKK
You just kill, level up, kill, level up.
This was my favourite bit. Hi there, welcome to Final Fantasy. In order to progress, you'll need to kill shit. Some things will be strong, so you will need to be the appropriate level. To get there, you have to kill lesser shit. Kill, level up.
I don't get why you're even here. Since that isn't your thing, you must really hate Final Fantasy.
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Keep an eye on me, I'm going to do some scheming. Here I go--
[20th January 09:05:11] Aurelia I don't speak diva. I speak human being.
I'm going to keep it like this since I feel like I'm being a bit one sided here (though I'm beginning to expand my view):
I'll give Final Fantasy XIV a one month try. I haven't played MMOs in a long time, but I won't hate on FF MMOs anymore. I'd still prefer offline RPGs. This means anything I might have said in the past *poof*.
At the time FF XI was released I was too young to get into online games with monthly fees(No cash and no credit card) and now it seems redundant to buy it, I will give FF XIV a try though.
Pretty much this. I'm not a big MMO fan but I might as well try out FFXIV.
I don't get why you're even here. Since that isn't your thing, you must really hate Final Fantasy.
Not that I don't like FF, on the contrary, I love. I love spending hours and hours in the same place winning level, making side-quest and killing weapons.
However, I know I will have a conclusion of that plot. Unlike a MMORPG, where no matter how strong I'm, I'll never have a conclusion of anything.
I wonder, I became a strong character for what ?
So maybe to show to others my useless supremacy.
__________________
"Lightning's fellings is like a static electricity, you can't see it but if you were touch it you could feel the shock."
However, I know I will have a conclusion of that plot. Unlike a MMORPG, where no matter how strong I'm, I'll never have a conclusion of anything.
Nice of you to completely ignore where I said that the campaign of MMORPGs typically do have a definitive end point.
What you do after that is no different from any other Final Fantasy game. Kill more shit, collect more shit, wander around shit. Or, quite simply, cancel the subscription and stop playing.
__________________
Keep an eye on me, I'm going to do some scheming. Here I go--
[20th January 09:05:11] Aurelia I don't speak diva. I speak human being.
Its not fair to say 'online isn't the same' = bad, but '3d isn't the same', 'real-time isn't the same" somehow escapes some kind of moral judgement. Either they all have to be judged, or none of them be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falsate
What makes XI any more of a Final Fantasy than any other FF related title?
If this particular line is true, then they must all be equal regardless. There are many titles that appeal to different people because we all don't like the same things in the world.
The above line I quoted is obviously true, but your statement doesn't make sense. Because each FF is different, they must therefore be equal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falsate
Some regard FFXII as deviating away from the series and failing while others see it as the best title yet. Does that make the people not in favor of the deviation ignorant?
I understand this and I'd respect peoples opinion if a particular FF title isn't their favourite, but to disqualify it isn't an opinion, its to make a statement with substantiable evidence. Notice how most people may say they hated FFXII but they won't say 'FFXII isnt a real FF?" as much as they have labeled FFXI?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKK
I prefer I good Storyline with an END than a massive game full of retarded's, you will never have a conclusion of anything about everything in these kind of games. You just kill, level up, kill, level up.
This is not my type.
FFXI has a better storyline than FFX imho, but thats just me. FFXI does have a storyline, which does have an end.
Here's a cliffnotes version of how each story ends:
Original story: You defeat the Shadow Lord and preserve peace in Vana'Diel
Zilart: You defeat Eald'Narche, the younger Zilart Prince in a bid to stop him from destroying the world in order to open the gates to Paradise.
Promathia: The twilight god Promathia has awoken from his slumber and you defeat him with the Light of the mothercrystals and with some help from others.
Aht Urhgan: You prevent Odin and Alexander from re-enacting Ragnarok, a cataclysmic battle between Light and Darkness that would decimate the Near East.
The story ends, moron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKK
Not that I don't like FF, on the contrary, I love. I love spending hours and hours in the same place winning level, making side-quest and killing weapons.
However, I know I will have a conclusion of that plot. Unlike a MMORPG, where no matter how strong I'm, I'll never have a conclusion of anything.
I wonder, I became a strong character for what ?
So maybe to show to others my useless supremacy.
Its not fair to say 'online isn't the same' = bad, but '3d isn't the same', 'real-time isn't the same" somehow escapes some kind of moral judgement. Either they all have to be judged, or none of them be.
Wow, that's very broad. Let's see. Almost every game ever went 3-D. It looks better in almost every way than pixels (when done correctly). Online however, every game has not gone. That's because, though online might be a step forward in technology as you keep pointing out, that's not necessarily applicable to games. That's like saying the invention of the telephone drastically improved games because it's a step forward in technology, yet you'll notice not every game in the world requires voice input. It's not even that it's online that's the problem; it's the fact that it's an utterly different genre from every other mainstream final fantasy that was the original point, which is caused by this massively online thing they have going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirawase
I understand this and I'd respect peoples opinion if a particular FF title isn't their favourite, but to disqualify it isn't an opinion, its to make a statement with substantiable evidence. Notice how most people may say they hated FFXII but they won't say 'FFXII isnt a real FF?" as much as they have labeled FFXI?
Yes. FFXII is an RPG. FFXI is an MMORPG. There is a distinct difference, having played both genres.
