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I don't know why people bum Nomura so much. He makes cool characters but they are SO unoriginal. The Versus character is cool, he's the most bullshit cliche anime character ever. SO POWERFUL YET DOESNT SHOW FEELINGS. Plz Ive seen that million times.
Like Auron for example. He's the same cliche design. Cool, but oh so powerful and doesnt want to show emotions Im betting that this skirt girl from the Versus trailers will end up falling in love with him but they'll both be too cool and stubborn to admit they love each other etc etc same shit all the time, original plz.
Don't even get me started on Kingdom Hearts characters WE JUST NEED OUR FRIENDS, THEN WE CAN BATTLE ANYTHING
Never thought I see the day. I will sit this one out in the shadows until arguments rear their heads and play Devil's Advocate. Until then, I agree and I want to sex Fran.
umm but Dante they really haven't even started making versus..hell the script / story isn't even finished. So a lot of the characters still would seem kinda "emotionless", besides Square said his design is supposed to change..They only gave him that much power so you could see his full potential. He wont start out that way...
I think Anima is right. Just give it some time I'm sure things will work out how we all want, given there's 3 games in the compilation. And, for the main character, there isn't really a wide range of possibilities for a really "cool" guy. Plus, so far, many people like the "strong but unsensitive/emotionless" main char's
Versus was an example, I mean his characters in general.
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Plus, so far, many people like the "strong but unsensitive/emotionless" main char's
Doesnt make it any less repetitive and boring.
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Oh shit wow, Dante saying this!
Never thought I see the day. I will sit this one out in the shadows until arguments rear their heads and play Devil's Advocate. Until then, I agree and I want to sex Fran.
I wan to sex Fran up, down, left, right, sideways, and all around
*ahem*
Anyways...I know exactly what you mean Dante and I agree....but I hope skirt girl won't be as unemotional as versus guy..would be...kinda boring :\
I second that and all of your first post. I don't particularly like the character designs in XII, but at least they went with someone different for once
Personally I can't stand the "stand around emotionless but looking hell cool" characters, they're incredibly dull, fanboy/fangirl (put yo' hands in the air) generators.
Nomura recycles a shit load of things that eventually get sickening. I do give him his credit when due but like you say, overrated nip.
But really know, Dante's just presuming by the looks of it. He does look like those emotionless omg strong people with good looks and everything that's what gamers think is cool.
You realize that to be original nowadays is kinda hard, not to say impossible don't ya? In the end it'll always be man vs environment, man vs man or man vs himself. The cool part is HOW the story unfolds. Yeah Auron is the typical poser, but I gave him credit for being a veteran and actually showing some mood (even if it was bad mood) most of time rather than "emotionless", but damn it was hella surprising to learn how his story went in the past and that he was actually DEAD (screw spoilers, it's a 5 years old game) when he joined you. That's what made him special imo. I disliked him the whole game for being so cliché too, but once I learned more about his past I started seeing him with different eyes. Auron is not the first nor the last of his kind, I could mention several characters in games, animes and comic books that have that same personality but for one reason or another are different among themselves and that's what makes them special. Instead of jumping the bandwagon of "hatin'" I prefer to analyze things by myself.
Lulu I agree is one character that undelivers. I remember when I saw her design for the first time, before I knew anything about FFX (I actually have a picture of her in my room) and I thought she would have a really deep story, just to find out she is nothing but some black mage chick who follows you. Her clothes could maybe be explained by the fact she is a Black Mage, but it doesn't seem as such.
As for Nomura design... Check for "Harajuku" on Google Images I actually like most of his designs and in fact it was probably what drew me to FF in first place. I found Amano's characters so crappy and all too reminiscent of D&D and LotR, same with the stories pre-FF6.
Don't bash on Kingdom Hearts, please, I have played the GBA one and read the story of the others, yes it's very simple, but it's made for KIDS for god's sake. It has Donald and Goofy as heroes what the hell do you people expect? >_>
I do agree about the Versus guy so far though and those dark clothes don't help.
But who knows, maybe we'll be surprised, look at Battousai (from Rurouni Kenshin manga series). He was just like the Versus guy back when he was a Hitokiri, all powerful and killing everyone who stood in his way without changing his expression, but it was his backstory and his motivations that made him interesting, then he got involved with a woman and that "emotionless" mask dropped to show his real self. Kinda like Squall too, but Squall's attitude didn't have much of a background to explain it "oh my big sis left me so I'll be a bitch to everyone from now on", they could have done better than that, but it wasn't TOO bad either. I actually kinda sympathized with Squall over the time. It sucks these good characters' image are messed by a swarm of retarded fanboys/girls who don't care about detailed analysis and just want to drool over how "kakoi" those pixels are while picturing sex with them in their sick minds.
But hey, there's still hope. Lightning wears colored clothes and doesn't seem like she doesn't have feelings, it just looks like she is very determined to achieve whatever she is supposed to. Maybe that's why there aren't as many fanboys/girls over her lol. Determined characters and cocky/confident ones are my favorites, seeing Mr 33cm appearance and that cocky smile of his at the end raised my expectations even more for XIII. I can find similarities between those types and myself, that's why I like them the most X)
So yeah, I don't really care about what the rest of the fanbase thinks of his design, as long as he continues to deliver what I expect him to and I enjoy it, it's all good for me.
Dante, I was just tryin' to say that Square sees that a lot of people LOVE Cloud and Squall, which are 2 characters that can be described as "strong yet seemingly emotionless." And then look what happened with Vaan? (sorry if I offend anyone) (and Idk even know if that was Nomura) Square tried a different approach with him, and he wasn't a big hit Just give it time
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Originally Posted by Kira
I dont think its fair to say that Versus and 13 are cliche until we know more about the characters personality and the plot.
And I agree with you, Kira, and everyone else who has said this We don't know too much about these characters yet.
Last edited by xThexNewxPrincex; Jan 05 2008 at 04:56 PM..
At first I thought this topic was just about his art and not his whole directing ability. Neither are that grand but whatever.
He has fallen prey to his own characters, that he can't create anything truly new with his current style. Look at Squall from Dissidia nothing like the Squall he did 8 or so years ago but just like every other character he done in the past 4 years. The remakes of the Amano-age heroes are the most unique because it totally shuns his current style. If he drops his "underground (haha)" pop culture art and goes back to his source characters he won't be so bad in the drawing department. Even Amano fell into this trap. Beautiful ghostly characters but V, VI, and IX felt like a rehash of character art compared to the works he did of FFI-IV. These drawings are not representations on the quality of course and recent Amano work has once again caught up to his previous work. Arita, Yoshida, Naora, and many other artist under Square (kind of) are lucky that they don't get used enough to "burn out" like Amano and Nomura have.
(PS3 max posting yay! Some Mod fuse these posts for me please!)
For his directing ability I can't speak much of it. I played and loved Kingdom Hearts one because of the recreation of my childhood. The FF characters were just a bonus to that. When someone with such a small background in political/human driven books and movies such as Nomura say they are going to take this topic seriously in games, I can't have much faith. The gap between serious writter of human character and game story writter hasn't been so obvious until the much aclaimed Lost Odyssey released last month where Shigematsu's Tale of Thousand years stomps all over LO's gameplay story. So much so that Shigematsu's part in the game is released as a seperate book that probably already reached bestseller status. So when battle system helper turn character designer turn director Nomura says he wants show something as hard to do as human emotion I hang my head in disbelief.
I've never actually talked to anybody specifically about Nomura's work as a whole, so I don't really know how good the "that good" in the thread title is. How "good" do people think he is?
Firstly, I think it's important to remember that Nomura does not work alone. I'm pretty darn sure that the other members of the staff, and even more, the higher ups have a great amount to say in what kind of characters Nomura should make. I'm sure Nomura has some say in his characters too, but I don't think they are all him. I don't know how to sort out what is Nomura and what isn't Nomura when a game is always a huge team effort.
I think that "good" is not just who does something first, but also who does something best. For the same reason, I have no mercy for classics. If they don't hold up to the new, they're garbage to me. I wouldn't take a 50 year old painting of a garden and say that because it exists, I want to see no more paintings of that garden. Yeah, if ALL I see are paintings of that dumb garden, I'm going to get a bit bored, but paintings are usually not carbon copies of each other. They just contain the same general themes. I think it takes some lack of attention to detail to be completely bored by characters that contain the same feel (although the Advent Children black clothing is getting a little old...physically, I would like to see some new design too.) Paintings of the same garden emphasize different aspects and portray them in different ways. Even paintings of a garden by the same person are different. I'm always waiting to see a more beautiful and moving painting.
In regards to the Kingdom Hearts thing, I have to say that I really liked the plot. XD At least of the first one and CoM (what I've seen of it). In general, anime and Japanese RPGs come to good conclusions, not realistic ones. That's how the genre works. Themes tend to be more on the level of the moral and philosophical than the physical and tangible. Villain poses a question, hero must supply an answer before he can win. Physical victory reinforces moral victory, etc. Blah blah blah. It's a style and a device. In terms of the style, I think Nomura and most Final Fantasys in general are spot on, and because I love the style, I really love them.
In the same strain of thought, anime and game characters are not "real" and I've, at least, never expected them to be. They tend to be more expressions of an idea than full characters in my mind. Maybe that's why what people percieve as "flat" doesn't bother me or strike me as such. The expressions they show are the expressions of the world philosophy they contain, and as they meet characters with other world philosophies, they can adopt them and change at their core. I don't know how this will work in a "Fantasy based on reality." I've just assumed that meant that Nomura isn't going to let Mr. Versus Protagonist get out as easily as Sora did with something like "having your friends with you will let you do anything." I think it means the Versus protagonist is going to need something a bit more viable in reality than that to get through.
I don't think the Versus protagonist is as uber 1337 as the first trailer showed him. I think he might be fleeing in the ones we haven't seen. Nothing really to back that up, though. I also think Kanae has said he was surprised and more expressive when he met the girl (although she said he didn't react, after all, to Shotgun Man).
Wooow... longest. Post. Ever. Actually, it's just about the same length as Vincent's. I don't feel so bad. XD
I think they go with the same kind of main character because it works.. I mean, just think if he tried a new style right now? Especially right now. Everyone is looking forward to XIII and vXIII, so they can't try something TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Right now, I think he's just playing it safe. He has untapped potential, and I'm sure in later games he'll totally shock us with some new wacky guy that we'll all love
(PS3 max posting yay! Some Mod fuse these posts for me please!)
For his directing ability I can't speak much of it. I played and loved Kingdom Hearts one because of the recreation of my childhood. The FF characters were just a bonus to that. When someone with such a small background in political/human driven books and movies such as Nomura say they are going to take this topic seriously in games, I can't have much faith. The gap between serious writter of human character and game story writter hasn't been so obvious until the much aclaimed Lost Odyssey released last month where Shigematsu's Tale of Thousand years stomps all over LO's gameplay story. So much so that Shigematsu's part in the game is released as a seperate book that probably already reached bestseller status. So when battle system helper turn character designer turn director Nomura says he wants show something as hard to do as human emotion* I hang my head in disbelief.
*and compares his efforts to do so to Shakespeare coughcoughversuscoughsplutterglassowater
Nomura isn't that good
I'm sure things will work out how we all want, given there's 3 games in the compilation. And, for the main character, there isn't really a wide range of possibilities for a really "cool" guy. Plus, so far, many people like the "strong but unsensitive/emotionless" main char's 
I actually like most of his designs and in fact it was probably what drew me to FF in first place. I found Amano's characters so crappy and all too reminiscent of D&D and LotR, same with the stories pre-FF6.
Actually, it's just about the same length as Vincent's. I don't feel so bad. XD
You're sleeping on the couch tonight mister! *storms off*
