Not a fan of the whole online thing?

[Eorzea]

I take it the majority of you aren't fans of online gaming and/or MMOs? Is it the monthly fee that turns you off? Or perhaps it's only online Final Fantasy games you dislike? I only ask because this forum section seems awfully inactive and that makes me sad. :P

Did you play FFXI? Was it not a positive experience?

What would it take for Final Fantasy XIV to garner your interest?

;)

[Agent Dunham]

FFXI was near impossible to get into late.

And I had to pay 25/month because Square Enix has the most retarded policies on the currencies they accept, so I had to pay in euros. srsly, guys, pull that shit again and I'll be pissed.

But I still enjoyed it, and I'm looking forward to playing FFXIV. It just so happens that a lot of the fanbase are tightarses with unshakeable stances regarding the ideas of what constitutes a "real" Final Fantasy game. :wtf:

FFXI was the first subscription MMO I played. Before that, I was all "Monthly fee? Piss off." After playing it, it opened this whole realm of video games that I had previously wanted to avoid. MMOs are enjoyable, I find. I think everyone should try a subscription MMO at least once.*




*Runescape so doesn't count, you sad little boys. :wtf:

[Ramenzilla]

I'll probably give FFXIV a go, but I usually don't play MMO's because they bore me, lol. I'm not a fan of grinding for hours and hours to gain .2 of a level, so yeah...usually I'll play for a week then be done with the game.

but it is more fun if you play with people *shrug* but I'm usually too busy to dedicate large blocks of time to that so then all my friends gain 20 more levels than me and yeah, bad news.

Also, a lot of newer MMO's look more fun because they've been able to refine the combat system n' such more...which has usually been static/tedious in my previous experiences as well.

[Falsate]

I remember when I began playing RuneScape back then, but I stopped visiting the site in 2008. The game is a joke.

I want to try FFXIV at least for One month since I've never played FFXI. You meet a lot of people (some are fools, others are cool) and it can develop from there. MMOs aren't attractive as they use to be and I'd never want to dabble into Warcraft. Pfft.

[Ariana]

I've got nothing against subscription MMO games, save for the fact that I don't exactly happen to shit out money at this point in time. I'll get back to you though. In all seriousness though, lol, I just can't do $20 a month here, a cell phone bill there, buying the food to make myself lunch when I go to school, etc. If that wasn't an issue, I'd be all over FFXI and FFXIV, but as it stands now, it just isn't possible.

[Death Penalty]

I play World of Warcraft, and have dabbled into some other MMOs. Honestly, none of them even approach WoW's polish. There's good reason behind that. WoW is an enormous cash cow and has had years and years to use that money to refine the experience through constant patches and tweaks. I'll probably pick up FFXIV for at least a little while, but I still don't like the inclusion of MMOs into the main Final Fantasy titles.

At least it seems that they put entirely different teams in charge of developing the MMOs, and they don't delay the release of the other Final Fantasies at all.

[Falsate]

Oh, I'm not shitting on Warcraft lol. I'm just saying I'd probably end up on there like all-day. It's said people give up school and their jobs for that shiat.

I couldn't do it. x.x

[Dire]

Final Fantasy XI is the ONLY game in the series I haven't played. Doubt I ever will. I prefer games that have a definite ending, for the sake of no getting too involved, and maintaining a real life on the side. World of Warcraft was my horror story. :'(

Anyways, either way you look at it, an old online game with a dwindling active user base is pretty much doomed. Final Fantasy XI was released 2002. Sure they've piled expansions on to bring it "up-to-date"... but I'm pretty sure it's longevity will soon be trumped. Anyone think Final Fantasy XI will become obsolete after XIV is released?

[Death Penalty]

Pretty sure they're shutting down the servers for good to herald in FFXIV. They aren't stupid enough to compete with themselves!

[Mike]

Too bad they're leaving the servers up and updating XI for at least another year after XIV comes out. :cookie:

XI was a great game though. People say it's so hard to get into, though I found it really easy, possibly due to starting with a friend and getting myself into a decent Linkshell. I'm definitely picking up XIV when it comes out, though. I don't know how it'll match up to XI, but it looks great in its own right.

SIDE NOTE: At least they bothered putting a story into this game instead of making it a normal MMO that has an introductory story and never mentions shit again.

[Death Penalty]

A coherent storyline is actually one of the things that I admire so much about WoW. Anyone who takes the time to pay a little bit of attention has huge depths of lore and story to discover, and the fact that Final Fantasy MMOs indulge in the same thing can only be good.

[rise007]

I don't like playing MMOs because you have to work with people and since I'm a loner, I can't do that, even if it's people I don't know that are in a video game. What I hate more is when you have to join alliances, like in WoW. And also, I lose interest in things pretty fast, I just buy them just to feel content by just having them, I use/play it for a week, then I stop or I lose it and don't give a f*ck. So I'm afraid if I subscribe to an MMO I'll stop playing really quick and then I'll just be wasting my parent's unncessary-to-spend money.

[Settsuo]

Im not into MMOs much, but with the release of FFXIV, I might get it. From when information was being released on it, screens, and trailers Im going to pick it up. The only problem is college, work, and my girlfriend. So I'll only play for limited amounts of time im guessing. Also depends on how close its released after XIII because XIII>XIV.

[Squall_Leonhart]

I'm not into the huge grind, I don't want to pay a monthly fee, and I like a lot of story as well as good pacing in a game (which I'm pretty sure MMORPGs aren't known for). I also am slightly afraid that I would become addicted and spend way too much time on an online FF.

[spirawase]

I think its really a case of demographics..

the FF series (mostly since 7) attracted a very young playerbase to the franchise. I'd say a lot of people who got in FF did so when they were in their early teens. This means that when FFXI came out, many of them were still <17 maybe and didn't have credit cards or an income and aren't exactly available to a monthly fee.

The same thing is probably replicating itself with XIV, except its really been a while since the last 'wave' of FF fans were born from a major title. I suppose Dissidia counts.

When I started on FFXI I was 17 and it was my first paying MMORPG. I spent a lot of time on it (i still play) and I've also played a bunch of other MMORPGs out there including WoW. Before WoW came about, MMORPGs really were the realm of late teen / early adult gamers. The popularity of WoW really propelled the paid MMORPG genre and opened it up to more younger kids.

FFXI is the only MMORPG I play left because I like it most - because it is an FF game (I love FF more than I love MMOs) and also because its a good MMORPG. To date it is still the best MMORPG with a story out there. The fact that there are in-game cutscenes that involve your character is one aspect of this.. and they also happen to be unparalleled in the genre. The story is great too (and you CAN complete this, contrary to some strange belief) but the gaming - leveling / events / etc is perpetual of course.

I'm looking forward to playing XIV, although I'm a little saddened to see XI enter its twilight years. Its still definitely going to go on for quite a while - seeing as it IS still the most profitable/revenue-earning game for Square Enix at the moment. Perhaps XIV will beat that, seeing as it is a new-generation MMORPG.

Generally speaking, people who didnt want to get into XI but could probably wouldnt want to get into XIV. Those who couldn't get into XI (money/hardware/etc) will probably not get into it either.
Those who like flashy FMV, story driven cutscenes and long battle animations will also shy away from both XI and XIV..

But those who played XI and loved it will most likely be interested in XIV, so the chances of XIII players hotly discussing XIV is kinda low. Most of that action is happening on the XI forums.

[finalmattasy]

I think it's financially impossible for an MMO to measure up to regular game in regards to pacing.

I played 11 for a little over 100 hrs. I was a white Mage, got in late and didn't know anything. In all that time I only faced 1 story related boss, shopped allot, refined clothes and saw 3 or 4 cities.
What suckEd the most about the experience was the fact that you could lose hrs worth of work by fighting or getting aggro from the wrong monster. Die once, lose a few hours worth of level grinding, die twice, there goes your work again.
IMO, mmo's are to videogames what slot machines are to gambling. They cost moola monthly and they'll never end and they aren't as interesting or as well done as regular games.

I'll probably give 14 a 100hrs too (about the time I spend on a proper ff#). But after that i'll be done. I'd be interested in mmo's that are concise and well produced; and have an ending. Demon's Souls was something like that, and DS is awesome!

[XIII_Lightning]

I don't like online games. Personally, I don't think that XI and XIV, as online MMOs, should have been part of the main series. It's not like all the Tactics games were or we'd be up to XXV or something by now. XI should have been called FFOnline and XIV should be FFOnlineII, etc. Also, its bullshit to have to pay monthly or whatever for playing it. You buy the game and that's it. I don't want to play FF with other people and be limited to only one character... to me that's not FF.

I also thought it was a joke when they announced XIV at the Sony press conference at this years E3. I laughed at the tv and said 'is it April fool's or what?!' They haven't even released XIII yet I don't want to hear about XIV especially an online game... AGAIN!

I don't care about them working on multiple main series games at a time... SE has too much going on, so many games in the works... AND NONE HAVE BEEN RELEASED YET! Give me XIII, then I'll listen to what other games your making.

But I will NEVER play those online FF, that's not FF.

[Agent Dunham]

But I will NEVER play those online FF, that's not FF.

:origa:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2378/loltard.png
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4381/loltard2.png

Spoken like a true FFXI ignorer.

[spirawase]

:origa:
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2378/loltard.png
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4381/loltard2.png

Spoken like a true FFXI ignorer.

indeed..

thats like the perfect example of how pepole are willing to ignore and disclaim a particular entry in the official main Final Fantasy lineage (ie, the numbered FFs) to suit what they believe is a 'real' FF.

On many counts, FFXI is a real FF, and I really shouldn't have to explain or validate myself. Square Enix themselves think so, and thats good enough, really.

But really, as much as its an MMORPG, it is also a very traditional FF and is more true to the series than FF7, FF8, FF10, FF12 and FF13, maybe even combined.
And I say this in terms of crystals, chocobo, moogles, magic, Cid, airships, jobs, monsters and so on.

Unfortunately, a good MMORPG is never short. And you have to play more. You should want to play more. FFXI was a little punishing in the past because thats how all MMORPGs (before WoW) were - not casual friendly.. but I think XIV will probably be a lot more relaxed in that sense.

I'm still looking forward to it. Seeing as how its being managed by the same dev team who did FFXI and I thoroughly enjoy FFXI's mission (basically main storyline) cutscenes.. I cannot wait to see how XIV's will turn out, in HD, voice-acted goodness.

[*~Jade~*]

I´m not a big fan of online games. I never played FF11 and i wont play FF14. I think the story of an online game will never be as good as the story of a game which is not online. And i dont know why, i just dont like FF online xD

[Falsate]

indeed..

thats like the perfect example of how pepole are willing to ignore and disclaim a particular entry in the official main Final Fantasy lineage (ie, the numbered FFs) to suit what they believe is a 'real' FF.

On many counts, FFXI is a real FF, and I really shouldn't have to explain or validate myself. Square Enix themselves think so, and thats good enough, really.

But really, as much as its an MMORPG, it is also a very traditional FF and is more true to the series than FF7, FF8, FF10, FF12 and FF13, maybe even combined.
And I say this in terms of crystals, chocobo, moogles, magic, Cid, airships, jobs, monsters and so on.

Unfortunately, a good MMORPG is never short. And you have to play more. You should want to play more. FFXI was a little punishing in the past because thats how all MMORPGs (before WoW) were - not casual friendly.. but I think XIV will probably be a lot more relaxed in that sense.

I'm still looking forward to it. Seeing as how its being managed by the same dev team who did FFXI and I thoroughly enjoy FFXI's mission (basically main storyline) cutscenes.. I cannot wait to see how XIV's will turn out, in HD, voice-acted goodness.

It is a MMORPG, not a main installment like it's formers. This is why a lot of people just skip it's entry into the franchise..

[Ren XIII]

At the time FF XI was released I was too young to get into online games with monthly fees(No cash and no credit card) and now it seems redundant to buy it, I will give FF XIV a try though.

[Agent Dunham]

It is a MMORPG, not a main installment like it's formers. This is why a lot of people just skip it's entry into the franchise..

... No, pretty sure it's a main installment. The giant "XI" on the box gave it away. Unless there was another XI I wasn't aware of?

[Falsate]

I should have added that it's not considered to be a main installment by some fans.

EDIT: Person below summed it up for me.

[XIII_Lightning]

I´m not a big fan of online games. I never played FF11 and i wont play FF14. I think the story of an online game will never be as good as the story of a game which is not online. And i dont know why, i just dont like FF online xD


Thank you. I'm glad someone agrees with me instead of calling me ignorant. And I'm sure there is a great number of people who feel the same way. Online just isn't the same.

[otakumasterage]

I LOVE how FF XIV looks and cant wait to play it. I probably cant afford it now so I need to get a job or something... I wish they would just may you pay a rediculous amount for the game when you buy it and then let you play as much as you want free but... what else you gonna do?

[spirawase]

i think thats the biggest part of the misconception about FFXI. its not like most other online games in that it actually has a real storyline - one that directly involves your character (as opposed to a backstory that your character 'chases'/follows)

Its drawbacks are mainly that for a PS2 FF it does lack voice acting (which in understandable given the sheer size of the game and in-game text) so its a little bit more like PS1 FFs in terms of story-telling, except you do get cool in-game cutscenes. Theres also no FMV in the game other than the opening. The other thing is that its initial stories/cutscene quality kinda pale in comparison with the laters ones that come, likely because the developers get better at what they do.

But other than that, FFXI tells a very rich and compelling story. Its style is different from X or XII tho. X is mostly a character study, and XII politic driven. XI is mostly plot/scenario-driven.

Like this for example..
YouTube - FFXI Wings of the Goddess Mission - On Thin Ice

edit: i don't think its fair to XI to say 'online isn't the same', because its a similar argument to '3d isnt the same' or 'voice acted isn't the same'. It isn't meant to be the same. Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor, and with FFXI, it so happens that being online is one major part of this. At its root, it is still an FF game - with its story, characters, plot elements, and so on.

FFXI is more Final Fantasy than Crisis Core, Advent Children, X-2, Revenant Wings, etc combined. Maybe Agito and Versus too, but I wouldn't know since its not out yet. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or being very very stubborn.

Dissidia, based on the main FF series is direct proof of this. Nothing from series spin-offs are in it. Nothing from secondary FF franchises (Tactics, Crystal Chronicles, Chocobo series) is in it, but XI is clearly in there.

[Death Penalty]

edit: i don't think its fair to XI to say 'online isn't the same', because its a similar argument to '3d isnt the same' or 'voice acted isn't the same'. It isn't meant to be the same. Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor, and with FFXI, it so happens that being online is one major part of this. At its root, it is still an FF game - with its story, characters, plot elements, and so on.

Except that voice acting and 3D are clear steps forward in technology, where an MMO is an utterly different kind of game. There's a big evident difference, and whether XI is a mainstream FF or not (it is, of course) that fact is made clear by just how many of the fans passed that one up altogether. It'd be similar to the next installment of Final Fantasy being an RTS, as long as you had units that level up. I really think these MMOs should be spin-offs, myself, but then again they'd sell less if they didn't belong to the main franchise.

[spirawase]

so being able to go online isn't a step forward in technology. this conversation wouldnt have been possible without the advent of the internet. is that not a step forward in technology?

an MMORPG is a different kind of game, but it is still an RPG (hence the part of the term) non RPGS MMOs do exist out there.. and they're really not fun to play. The RTS concept already happened in FFXII:RW, but the moment you add leveling up to it, its no longer a pure RTS just as it cannot be a pure RPG either. To that extent, a lot of FFs arent pure RPGs, since for example, you don't actually have levels in FF2, or in FFXII, there are adventure elements as well.. but seriously, this is an argument of semantics.

Whether XI is mainstream or not depends on whether Square Enix wants it to be. Using popularity as a gauge is a logical fallacy. And if you want to take that line of argument, a ton of people passed on other FFs as well but nobody seems to mention it as much.

Considering FFXI had approximately 650,000 subscribers at the peak of its popularity, surely that is enough players to pass off as mainstream.

At least your last statement has a half-truth in it. FFXI wouldn't have as many subscribers as it did if it weren't an FF title, but Square Enix wouldn't be where it is today without having a popular/bankable MMORPG. Some people just fail to realise how much money FFXI has made for Square Enix. (i'll give you a hint, more than every other FF)

[Sekai]

I prefer I good Storyline with an END than a massive game full of retarded's, you will never have a conclusion of anything about everything in these kind of games. You just kill, level up, kill, level up.

This is not my type. :wtf:

[Falsate]

i think thats the biggest part of the misconception about FFXI. its not like most other online games in that it actually has a real storyline - one that directly involves your character (as opposed to a backstory that your character 'chases'/follows)

Its drawbacks are mainly that for a PS2 FF it does lack voice acting (which in understandable given the sheer size of the game and in-game text) so its a little bit more like PS1 FFs in terms of story-telling, except you do get cool in-game cutscenes. Theres also no FMV in the game other than the opening. The other thing is that its initial stories/cutscene quality kinda pale in comparison with the laters ones that come, likely because the developers get better at what they do.

But other than that, FFXI tells a very rich and compelling story. Its style is different from X or XII tho. X is mostly a character study, and XII politic driven. XI is mostly plot/scenario-driven.

Like this for example..
YouTube - FFXI Wings of the Goddess Mission - On Thin Ice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQImw77cr8U)

edit: i don't think its fair to XI to say 'online isn't the same', because its a similar argument to '3d isnt the same' or 'voice acted isn't the same'. It isn't meant to be the same. Every FF has its own unique feel and flavor, and with FFXI, it so happens that being online is one major part of this. At its root, it is still an FF game - with its story, characters, plot elements, and so on.

FFXI is more Final Fantasy than Crisis Core, Advent Children, X-2, Revenant Wings, etc combined. Maybe Agito and Versus too, but I wouldn't know since its not out yet. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or being very very stubborn.

Dissidia, based on the main FF series is direct proof of this. Nothing from series spin-offs are in it. Nothing from secondary FF franchises (Tactics, Crystal Chronicles, Chocobo series) is in it, but XI is clearly in there.
How isn't it fair to say "Online isn't the same"?

What makes XI any more of a Final Fantasy than any other FF related title?
Every FF has its own unique feel and flavorIf this particular line is true, then they must all be equal regardless. There are many titles that appeal to different people because we all don't like the same things in the world.

Some regard FFXII as deviating away from the series and failing while others see it as the best title yet. Does that make the people not in favor of the deviation ignorant?

[Agent Dunham]

Personally, what shits me is people saying it's not a true Final Fantasy just because it's online. Despite having what - arguably - makes Final Fantasy what it is, people are always saying "OOH, DUN COUNT", simply because they don't like MMOs. Using that thinking, I don't like FFX, therefore it doesn't count as a proper Final Fantasy title.

It's easy to tell the people who don't have a clue.

I prefer I good Storyline with an END than a massive game full of retarded's, you will never have a conclusion of anything about everything in these kind of games. You just kill, level up, kill, level up.

This is not my type. :wtf:
This is a perfect example. I'd bet my face you've never played an MMORPG before. The story does end. It just so happens you can continue on doing arbitrary things after that. Guess what? EVERY SINGLE FINAL FANTASY GAME IS LIKE THAT. You don't save after killing the final boss. You know the story is finished, but you can just piss around doing whatever you want - non-essential side quests, item gathering, monster smashing.


You just kill, level up, kill, level up.


This was my favourite bit. Hi there, welcome to Final Fantasy. In order to progress, you'll need to kill shit. Some things will be strong, so you will need to be the appropriate level. To get there, you have to kill lesser shit. Kill, level up.

I don't get why you're even here. Since that isn't your thing, you must really hate Final Fantasy.

[Falsate]

I'm going to keep it like this since I feel like I'm being a bit one sided here (though I'm beginning to expand my view):

I'll give Final Fantasy XIV a one month try. I haven't played MMOs in a long time, but I won't hate on FF MMOs anymore. I'd still prefer offline RPGs. This means anything I might have said in the past *poof*.

[Phoenix117]

At the time FF XI was released I was too young to get into online games with monthly fees(No cash and no credit card) and now it seems redundant to buy it, I will give FF XIV a try though.

Pretty much this. I'm not a big MMO fan but I might as well try out FFXIV.

[Sekai]

I don't get why you're even here. Since that isn't your thing, you must really hate Final Fantasy.

Not that I don't like FF, on the contrary, I love. I love spending hours and hours in the same place winning level, making side-quest and killing weapons.
However, I know I will have a conclusion of that plot. Unlike a MMORPG, where no matter how strong I'm, I'll never have a conclusion of anything.
I wonder, I became a strong character for what ?
So maybe to show to others my useless supremacy.

[Agent Dunham]

However, I know I will have a conclusion of that plot. Unlike a MMORPG, where no matter how strong I'm, I'll never have a conclusion of anything.


Nice of you to completely ignore where I said that the campaign of MMORPGs typically do have a definitive end point. :wtf:

What you do after that is no different from any other Final Fantasy game. Kill more shit, collect more shit, wander around shit. Or, quite simply, cancel the subscription and stop playing.

[Sekai]

What you do after that is no different from any other Final Fantasy game. Kill more shit, collect more shit, wander around shit.
Woooouh the biggest diference between FF's is the plot. :cathryn:

[spirawase]

How isn't it fair to say "Online isn't the same"?

Its not fair to say 'online isn't the same' = bad, but '3d isn't the same', 'real-time isn't the same" somehow escapes some kind of moral judgement. Either they all have to be judged, or none of them be.


What makes XI any more of a Final Fantasy than any other FF related title?
If this particular line is true, then they must all be equal regardless. There are many titles that appeal to different people because we all don't like the same things in the world.

The above line I quoted is obviously true, but your statement doesn't make sense. Because each FF is different, they must therefore be equal?


Some regard FFXII as deviating away from the series and failing while others see it as the best title yet. Does that make the people not in favor of the deviation ignorant?

I understand this and I'd respect peoples opinion if a particular FF title isn't their favourite, but to disqualify it isn't an opinion, its to make a statement with substantiable evidence. Notice how most people may say they hated FFXII but they won't say 'FFXII isnt a real FF?" as much as they have labeled FFXI?

I prefer I good Storyline with an END than a massive game full of retarded's, you will never have a conclusion of anything about everything in these kind of games. You just kill, level up, kill, level up.

This is not my type. :wtf:

FFXI has a better storyline than FFX imho, but thats just me. FFXI does have a storyline, which does have an end.
Here's a cliffnotes version of how each story ends:
Original story: You defeat the Shadow Lord and preserve peace in Vana'Diel
Zilart: You defeat Eald'Narche, the younger Zilart Prince in a bid to stop him from destroying the world in order to open the gates to Paradise.
Promathia: The twilight god Promathia has awoken from his slumber and you defeat him with the Light of the mothercrystals and with some help from others.
Aht Urhgan: You prevent Odin and Alexander from re-enacting Ragnarok, a cataclysmic battle between Light and Darkness that would decimate the Near East.

The story ends, moron.

Not that I don't like FF, on the contrary, I love. I love spending hours and hours in the same place winning level, making side-quest and killing weapons.
However, I know I will have a conclusion of that plot. Unlike a MMORPG, where no matter how strong I'm, I'll never have a conclusion of anything.
I wonder, I became a strong character for what ?
So maybe to show to others my useless supremacy.

Your brain has no conclusion.

[Agent Dunham]

Woooouh the biggest diference between FF's is the plot. :cathryn:

And ?

[Death Penalty]

Its not fair to say 'online isn't the same' = bad, but '3d isn't the same', 'real-time isn't the same" somehow escapes some kind of moral judgement. Either they all have to be judged, or none of them be.

Wow, that's very broad. Let's see. Almost every game ever went 3-D. It looks better in almost every way than pixels (when done correctly). Online however, every game has not gone. That's because, though online might be a step forward in technology as you keep pointing out, that's not necessarily applicable to games. That's like saying the invention of the telephone drastically improved games because it's a step forward in technology, yet you'll notice not every game in the world requires voice input. It's not even that it's online that's the problem; it's the fact that it's an utterly different genre from every other mainstream final fantasy that was the original point, which is caused by this massively online thing they have going on.


I understand this and I'd respect peoples opinion if a particular FF title isn't their favourite, but to disqualify it isn't an opinion, its to make a statement with substantiable evidence. Notice how most people may say they hated FFXII but they won't say 'FFXII isnt a real FF?" as much as they have labeled FFXI?

Yes. FFXII is an RPG. FFXI is an MMORPG. There is a distinct difference, having played both genres.

[Sekai]

And ?

Don't make me laugh with these kind of ridiculous plots like, Kill the Dark Lord or prevent Odin from beginning Ragnarok.
This type of plot is made for people at most slightly retarded.


END.

[Agent Dunham]

or prevent Odin from beginning Ragnarok.
This type of plot is made for people at most slightly retarded.


END.

FFVII: Prevent Sephiroth from slamming a giant meteor into the earth and ending the world.

Yeah, that's quite a chasm of difference between the most revered Final Fantasy of all time and the red-headed step-child MMORPG.





No, actually. No. Don't play MMOs I'm going to play, I don't want your retardation killing the servers every time you log on.

[Sekai]

FFVII: Prevent Sephiroth from slamming a giant meteor into the earth and ending the world.
Yeah, that's quite a chasm of difference between the most revered Final Fantasy of all time and the red-headed step-child MMORPG.

There you go, prevent Sephiroth from destroying the earth with a meteor shit. So you forget that this is the end of the plot, which is a complex plot full of paths. What takes Sephiroth to do that?
Why the hell Cloud act like that ? In a offline game you always have this answers because the story has a foundation, everything is millimeters explained.

Already in a MMORPG: Destroy the King'sBlackass!
And that's all, there's no complexity, you know you have to stay strong and fuck with the bad guy, and's end.

Shuyu : No, actually. No. Don't play MMOs I'm going to play, I don't want your retardation killing the servers every time you log on.

Don't worry, I don't waste my time with retard things ;D

enough of that, 'm sleepy...

[spirawase]

Wow, that's very broad. Let's see. Almost every game ever went 3-D. It looks better in almost every way than pixels (when done correctly). Online however, every game has not gone. That's because, though online might be a step forward in technology as you keep pointing out, that's not necessarily applicable to games. That's like saying the invention of the telephone drastically improved games because it's a step forward in technology, yet you'll notice not every game in the world requires voice input. It's not even that it's online that's the problem; it's the fact that it's an utterly different genre from every other mainstream final fantasy that was the original point, which is caused by this massively online thing they have going on.

Yes. FFXII is an RPG. FFXI is an MMORPG. There is a distinct difference, having played both genres.

I still think its mainly a judgement/opinion issue. FFIII was way better in 2D because DS graphics to me are shitty and the sound makes me feel like i stepped back 10 years in time (no full channel? wtf)

Citing the telephone isnt exactly a good example because its not like there are really any mainly voice based games out there. On the other hand, there has been a great rising trend in games going online. Prior to the MMORPG boom (post WoW), already single player games hand online modes, multiplayer features and so on. Regardless, the point you're making is that FFXI and FFXIV are both MMORPGs which are a different genre from all the other main FF titles.

That is true, but (again opinion chiming in here) I feel a Final Fantasy game is judged and 'qualified' more by its "Final-Fantasyness" than its genre being an RPG. After all, there are tons of RPGs out there but if you slap on the title Final Fantasy on it, it would probably not have that "Final-Fantasyness" (sorry couldn't think of a better word). FFXI however, has all those FF qualities.

In fact, I think saying that a true Final Fantasy is defined by its genre being an RPG is quite untrue, because XI and XIV already break the "rules" and they are officially in the lineage. If we want to add spin-offs from the main lineage which are all canon, DoC is an FPS, Crisis Core is adventure-RPG, Advent Children isnt even a game, Revenant Wings resembles an RTS more, Dissidia is a fighter.

So what I'm saying is that people judging FFXI on the basis of genre are wrongly disqualifying XI and XIV on the basis of them being MMORPGs. They are still Final Fantasy games at their very heart.

[spirawase]

There you go, prevent Sephiroth from destroying the earth with a meteor shit. So you forget that this is the end of the plot, which is a complex plot full of paths. What takes Sephiroth to do that?
Why the hell Cloud act like that ? In a offline game you always have this answers because the story has a foundation, everything is millimeters explained.

Already in a MMORPG: Destroy the King'sBlackass!
And that's all, there's no complexity, you know you have to stay strong and fuck with the bad guy, and's end.

Shuyu : No, actually. No. Don't play MMOs I'm going to play, I don't want your retardation killing the servers every time you log on.

Don't worry, I don't waste my time with retard things ;D

enough of that, 'm sleepy...

Theres a lot more complexity to that, you just didnt play it before to find out.

[Agent Dunham]

There you go, prevent Sephiroth from destroying the earth with a meteor shit. So you forget that this is the end of the plot, which is a complex plot full of paths. What takes Sephiroth to do that?
Why the hell Cloud act like that ? In a offline game you always have this answers because the story has a foundation, everything is millimeters explained.

Already in a MMORPG: Destroy the King'sBlackass!
And that's all, there's no complexity, you know you have to stay strong and fuck with the bad guy, and's end.

If you had actually played it, you incomprehensible fuckwit, you'd know that there are motivations for even little mini-quest NPCs. Main campaign NPCs are quite well done. One that sticks out is an early Windurst mission where a Taru-taru defies the law against the pleas of his sister and his own better judgement for the sake of research. He is so driven by his quest for knowledge that he goes near an ancient, destructive artifact in order to understand it, to see if it's a viable weapon for war and see just what it is the Federation wants to hide.

Cloud runs around acting like a douchebag in an attempt to make a quick buck. He doesn't give two shits about anything other than himself.

Personally, I find the annoying short person more intriguing and compelling the story further.

[Sekai]

If you had actually played it, you incomprehensible fuckwit, you'd know that there are motivations for even little mini-quest NPCs. Main campaign NPCs are quite well done. One that sticks out is an early Windurst mission where a Taru-taru defies the law against the pleas of his sister and his own better judgement for the sake of research. He is so driven by his quest for knowledge that he goes near an ancient, destructive artifact in order to understand it, to see if it's a viable weapon for war and see just what it is the Federation wants to hide.

Cloud runs around acting like a douchebag in an attempt to make a quick buck. He doesn't give two shits about anything other than himself.

Personally, I find the annoying short person more intriguing and compelling the story further.


Don't need to explain the hole shit, after all I already know.
Okay, go on and play your MMORPG* happy of life and stop this shit. :wtf:



*( Massive Multiplayer Online Retarded
Psychotic Gay ) joking XD

Your post are way fast.

[Agent Dunham]

For someone who throws around "HURRRDURRR DIS SHIT RETARTEEDDDDD" like it's a bloody ball, you're incredibly inept at noticing when you're acting like your head was squished pencil thin whilst exiting your mother's vagina.

[FinalFantasyAddict]

I actually love online games the only reason I haven't played FFXI and haven't seriously thought about FFXIV is that I couldn't afford to play it for the ps2 and I doubt I'll be able to afford to play it on the ps3. That's all it really comes down too... shelling out the cash each month

Oh, I'm not shitting on Warcraft lol. I'm just saying I'd probably end up on there like all-day. It's said people give up school and their jobs for that shiat.

I couldn't do it. x.x

Yeah this is the other reason I don't usually play online games... they destroy my life even more than the regular games ;0;

[Sekai]

But the fact is retarded. You're retarded to get serious discussions so useless, probably when you are discussing something with someone, others certainly laugh at your face to see that you really get serious about things in this forum.

[Death Penalty]

In fact, I think saying that a true Final Fantasy is defined by its genre being an RPG is quite untrue, because XI and XIV already break the "rules" and they are officially in the lineage. If we want to add spin-offs from the main lineage which are all canon, DoC is an FPS, Crisis Core is adventure-RPG, Advent Children isnt even a game, Revenant Wings resembles an RTS more, Dissidia is a fighter.

So what I'm saying is that people judging FFXI on the basis of genre are wrongly disqualifying XI and XIV on the basis of them being MMORPGs. They are still Final Fantasy games at their very heart.

Hence people discounting them. It's sorta my whole point. The other games are spin-offs, and my only point was that I think these MMOs too should be spin-offs. Also, DoC is a third-person shooter. Not that it honestly matters. They didn't call it FFXIV. I would also argue that RPG gameplay is core to the experience of a Final Fantasy, as every single FF before XI had it. It's actually one of the core reasons I didn't like XII. It plays like an MMO, but thankfully you don't need to form groups and guilds and fight long class involved fights trekking through dungeons for specific loot.

XI and XIV are radical departures from the 'mainstream' FFs. You're a faceless character with little to no identity among a world full of heroes that can all do at least what you do if not better. You form groups, you raid dungeons for loot, yadda yadda. People expect Final Fantasy to be an RPG, and I don't think they're wrong to. Changing the genre is like removing moogles or chocobos. It looses a certain amount of what makes it a Final Fantasy. That's just my take.

I still don't really have a problem with the MMOs, honestly. As I said, they're worked on by a different team; the regular RPG ones come out at the same rate regardless, and the MMOs likewise aren't delayed or neglected because of that. I just think they would have been more fitting as spin-offs. My two cents.

[Falsate]

Its not fair to say 'online isn't the same' = bad, but '3d isn't the same', 'real-time isn't the same" somehow escapes some kind of moral judgement. Either they all have to be judged, or none of them be.



The above line I quoted is obviously true, but your statement doesn't make sense. Because each FF is different, they must therefore be equal?


I understand this and I'd respect peoples opinion if a particular FF title isn't their favourite, but to disqualify it isn't an opinion, its to make a statement with substantiable evidence. Notice how most people may say they hated FFXII but they won't say 'FFXII isnt a real FF?" as much as they have labeled FFXI?Some people have tried all 3 and have experienced the change for themselves. There are a lot of features and gameplay elements that can't be incorporated in MMORPGs that have offline rpgs have. Mainly the need to balance the battles between players..

You clearly said yourself that each Final Fantasy is different, then what makes Final Fantasy XI so "true" to the series compared to other titles? Surely you must know that plenty of the installments exist in it's own universe and may (or may not) have include staples seen from past FFs. How do you know what Final Fantasy is in the eye of Square Enix? Are you judging this based off the recurring staples throughout the series? Where is this criteria that you follow? How did you come to that conclusion?

You can't control what people say and how they think. If that person thinks a particular installment "strayed" away from the series or labels an installment as not being a FF, then what are you going to do? Bash them for putting out their opinion? I hear a lot of people say "Just skip Final Fantasy XI" without any elaboration as to why.

They can disqualify anything they want to though. I am not saying this is the way I think about Final Fantasy XI or any of them for that matter, but I'm only explaining the reactions I usually see around me. I know you've heard something along the lines of this expression: "Anything above IX or X is a failure and should be dosed in Margarine (yes, Margarine!) and burned".

[spirawase]

I would also argue that RPG gameplay is core to the experience of a Final Fantasy, as every single FF before XI had it. It's actually one of the core reasons I didn't like XII. It plays like an MMO, but thankfully you don't need to form groups and guilds and fight long class involved fights trekking through dungeons for specific loot..

Have you played FFXI? You should know that whilst this is a good part of the game (this is where things really get fun tbh), you can also choose to play it solo, or stick to doing soloable quests, or just craft and fish, never doing battle at all. This is the foundation of the game. If we're to talk about story, it really only requires a party of 6. The fights are hardly long, given most of the fights you'd encounter is capped at 30mins and dungeon trekking is only as long as you want it to be.


XI and XIV are radical departures from the 'mainstream' FFs. You're a faceless character with little to no identity among a world full of heroes that can all do at least what you do if not better. You form groups, you raid dungeons for loot, yadda yadda. People expect Final Fantasy to be an RPG, and I don't think they're wrong to. Changing the genre is like removing moogles or chocobos. It looses a certain amount of what makes it a Final Fantasy. That's just my take.


I see your take. My take is that you're a faceless character with an identity to call your own and build for yourself, unlike some character you've been thrown to use that is already typecast before you began. In a sense its identical to FF1 and NES FF3, because the heroes in that game don't have personalities (they don't even have fixed names). this element of XI and XIV is closer to the original FF than the newer ones. People expect FF to be an RPG, but XI and XIV ARE RPGs, they're just MMORPGs, which is a subset of RPG gaming. The way you put it, people expect Final Fantasy to be 'offline-Japanese-console-styled-RPG' instead of just a Role Playing Game, purposely limiting what defines an RPG to suit what they want to play - because you'll notice, most people who scorn FFXI as an MMORPG have never touched the game, no?


I still don't really have a problem with the MMOs, honestly. As I said, they're worked on by a different team; the regular RPG ones come out at the same rate regardless, and the MMOs likewise aren't delayed or neglected because of that. I just think they would have been more fitting as spin-offs. My two cents.

The regular ones have slowed down, to be honest. you should recall when FF8-11 came out in 4 consecutive years, but 12 came with a 4 year gap and 13 with a 3 year gap after that. The way Final Fantasy titles are being made has changed, its slowed down. I just think that its fine time people just accepted XI and XIV as main series entries - because they truly and officially are, but admit that they can't/won't play them simply because those entries are MMORPGs. Its not that hard really.


Some people have tried all 3 and have experienced the change for themselves. There are a lot of features and gameplay elements that can't be incorporated in MMORPGs that have offline rpgs have. Mainly the need to balance the battles between players..

And there are a bunch of things you can do in 2D that you can't do well in 3D, narrative styles you can use in text that won't work with voice acting. Sure, they don't affect the battle system as much, but an RPG is both the story and the battle, so still affects the game considerably.
But your statement about balance couldn't be futher from the truth. MMORPGs require far more balancing between players than offline games.


You clearly said yourself that each Final Fantasy is different, then what makes Final Fantasy XI so "true" to the series compared to other titles? Surely you must know that plenty of the installments exist in it's own universe and may (or may not) have include staples seen from past FFs. How do you know what Final Fantasy is in the eye of Square Enix? Are you judging this based off the recurring staples throughout the series? Where is this criteria that you follow? How did you come to that conclusion?


Recurring themes - life, love, friendship, not being alone, power, destiny
Recurring elements - crystals, natural sources of magic, magic, job classes, summoners
Recurring summons.
Recurring characters/monsters - Chocobo, Moogles, Cid, Tonberry, Cactuar, Antlion, Adamantoise, etc.

These are from my observation and I'd say general consensus will agree that they are all elements of a Final Fantasy game.

I know for a fact FFXI and FFXIV are considered real (non-spinoff) Final Fantasy's in the eyes of Square Enix, simply because they named them so.


You can't control what people say and how they think. If that person thinks a particular installment "strayed" away from the series or labels an installment as not being a FF, then what are you going to do? Bash them for putting out their opinion? I hear a lot of people say "Just skip Final Fantasy XI" without any elaboration as to why.

I'm saying this again for emphasis. Saying it strayed is perfectly fine. Saying its not a Final Fantasy is not, because clearly, it is. Unless they can somehow petition to SE to change the names of FFXI and FFXIV to something like FF Online and FF Online II, then their labels aren't worth shit. ACCEPT THE FACT. SE themselves have clearly given their reason in past interviews as to why they felt XI deserved to be a main series entry, by the way.

Once again, the people who say 'Just skip FFXI' are the people who have either never touched or played FFXI (or any MMORPG) at all, don't intend to, or cannot afford to. In other words, they've passed judgement before trying it. A baseless opinion is a worthless opinion. Seriously, its like people purposely mark it off their 'official' list so they can validate themselves for not having played it.

Nobody I know who has at least played FFXI has ever come up and said 'FFXI is so not an FF'. This should say something about the opinions being formed by people who've not touched it at all.


They can disqualify anything they want to though. I am not saying this is the way I think about Final Fantasy XI or any of them for that matter, but I'm only explaining the reactions I usually see around me. I know you've heard something along the lines of this expression: "Anything above IX or X is a failure and should be dosed in Margarine (yes, Margarine!) and burned".

Anything above IX or X is a failure and should be dosed in Margarine (yes, Margarine!) and burned <- is an opinion, which can be made valid by what one person thinks based on subjective judgement.

Final Fantasy XI is not an FF <- is a proof statement, which can only be made valid with factual evidence. If you want to make it an opinion statement, you'd need to put 'I don't think FFXI is a real FF, but I know it is after all', which totally changes things.

[Falsate]

Yes, I realize what you're saying. Most of that was taught in the 10th grade (Fallacies, Half Truths, and so forth). This not ment to be disrespectful.

Once again, the people who say 'Just skip FFXI' are the people who have either never touched or played FFXI (or any MMORPG) at all, don't intend to, or cannot afford to. In other words, they've passed judgement before trying it. A baseless opinion is a worthless opinion. Seriously, its like people purposely mark it off their 'official' list so they can validate themselves for not having played it.You've made a generalization as well. How do you know they have or have not played Final Fantasy XI? Do you understand that some fans play the newer titles for no more than an hour before they come to a conclusion?

A lot of this is subjective and there are those who are ignorant. They don't care about the game period and won't into detail as to why they don't considerate as 'exceptional'.

[manasword]

for those who havent play FFXI you guys truly miss out and seriously, so much final fantasy in to this game you cant even imagen what kind area's and monster's you encounter or fiend's witch ever but it has everything that the pass FF game has and it has every know monster and items and talk about the jobs in that game and the best know summons. i really really had a great experince and heck. I dont think there is an excuse if you can pull at least 13$bucks once a month. FFXI is just simply awesome so much to do in that game and it's my first mmo because it's final fantasy title.

veteran FFXI 7 years and half now.

i look forward to FFXIV

[spirawase]

Yes, I realize what you're saying. Most of that was taught in the 10th grade (Fallacies, Half Truths, and so forth). This not ment to be disrespectful.

You've made a generalization as well. How do you know they have or have not played Final Fantasy XI? Do you understand that some fans play the newer titles for no more than an hour before they come to a conclusion?

A lot of this is subjective and there are those who are ignorant. They don't care about the game period and won't into detail as to why they don't considerate as 'exceptional'.

I do admit I've generalized so far, and I'm sure there are a few people who have played and disagree with FFXIs heritage, but given the current situation, and within this thread alone, I'd say my generalization is pretty accurate.

I'd just wish that people who didn't care about the game didn't have to say anything about it. I mean, if you're not interested, why make a point to dismiss it so much right? And this is coming from people who say they love the series as well (except for XI), so theres a lot of irony in that.

That said, don't get me started on the tactics series cos I'd probably be that way about it.. but at least thats already not part of the main series, so idc

[Death Penalty]

I'm pretty sure they all admit that they're entries in the core FF series. The main thing is that they don't think that they should be.

[Wind]

Wow, the fires of the FF fanfags are fighting against each other despite XI not only pouring more money into the company than any FF but has more story, depth, characters, things to do and of course playing with fucking people around the damn world at all times. Tell me what FF game has ever even touched on this?

Hence people discounting them. It's sorta my whole point. The other games are spin-offs, and my only point was that I think these MMOs too should be spin-offs. Also, DoC is a third-person shooter. Not that it honestly matters. They didn't call it FFXIV. I would also argue that RPG gameplay is core to the experience of a Final Fantasy, as every single FF before XI had it. It's actually one of the core reasons I didn't like XII. It plays like an MMO, but thankfully you don't need to form groups and guilds and fight long class involved fights trekking through dungeons for specific loot.

You can say what you think (which is perfectly fine). However the fact that SE themselves dubbed this XI means no matter what you say (or any of the other FF fanfags) that it is indeed an installment in the series. I have no fucking idea why the fans believe they can say what is canon/numbered and what doesn't as they don't own jack shit on the FF franchise.

Again DoC is a...well an off shoot of VII which they could've called it XIV but quite frankly wouldn't have done it any good. They are not going to poor their funds into a spin off as opposed to their main product.

Core experience? My friend have you ever picked a fight with The Shadow Lord or any Boss with the friends you sweat tears with, 20 hours straight into the game and not feel regret about it once? The fact that this game managed to group people (on several different platforms and multitudes of countries) together in a game and have them fufill a storyline (quite epic in more aspects than Ultimecia or Chaos could even hope for) has done more than the entirety of FF4, 6, 7, 8 and 10 combined. There is a massive amount of customization, jobs, playstyles, linkshells, endgame material, over 7 different storylines (each epic in their own right) and level designs/music to make previous FF shit themselves is enough for it to be numbered. Compare the two themes Awakening and One Winged Angel, which one has the most dramatic themes and themes running around?

If you want a "core" experience, go main as a pld or nin and die so many times that delvl only to get right the fuck up and go at it again. These people who do this love the game and then get rewarded far more than their losses by being given story, equipment, more friends, if not all of these combined. It's a different FF experience yes, however it's by far the most rewarding in any of the series. I've met cats that SE has never dreamed of making main heroes for future FF titles that would make them millions.

In fact, FFXII and FFXIII have taken in the direction that FFXI has laid out for them. Don't believe me? Look at the battle camera angles, actions and play style. Guess what, they aren't in some random made up zone as in FFX and before. It's in the same setting, same camera angles and dynamics.

XI and XIV are radical departures from the 'mainstream' FFs. You're a faceless character with little to no identity among a world full of heroes that can all do at least what you do if not better. You form groups, you raid dungeons for loot, yadda yadda. People expect Final Fantasy to be an RPG, and I don't think they're wrong to. Changing the genre is like removing moogles or chocobos. It looses a certain amount of what makes it a Final Fantasy. That's just my take.

WTF, so faceless means I'm a character with no face model? You're more of a spagetthi western hero. While yes, your role is minor in some cases, you do end up building into becoming the main force behind the storyline. Who else defeats Promathia's ass? Not Prishe that's for damn sure. Who killed the Shadow Lord? Not Zeid or Lion that's for damn sure. Have you fought Maat? O really you haven't? Have you soloed the avatar primes (or know what they fuck they are?) O you havent? Guess your arguments are based on perceptions of a game or one who didn't go far along to get to the meat (especially nowadays that everything is given to you on a silver platter).

This game gives you opportunity to develop your own character and interact with others. You don't like being a warrior? Change the job. You don't like the people you're with? Drop the party and either make your own, ask to get another, get a power levler or simply wait to get another.

Btw, I'd rather role play my identity than play as some asshole character thinking he's special cause he likes oversized kittens or a guy who can't even grow ballz to have his own personality. Why have a preset role when you can play your own.

On a last note, stop comparing FFXI as if it's WoW because the two are on two completely different poles of the MMO world. That's like going Popeyes and braging about KFC's shitty buscuits. In fact, the concept of raiding is completely different in XI (as that "raiding" concept didn't arise till WoW came on the scene. Yes you fail for using one games terms to another.)

[Zeta_Stryker]

To me, I'm frankly the same. Never payed each month for a RPG game just to enjoy it, and I probably never will with XIV.

In my opinion, Versus XIII is the true XIV. Dispite it bearing the roman numeral 13. And Agito would be like XV :) .

[J!ZzZY]

I'm still pissed they didn't just name it FFO (Final Fantasy Online). It's a funny take on the genre name and it would be a lot better than wasting an entire numeral. Plus they'll get so distracted making expansion packs, add-ons/updates, and patches that I fear they may stall on releasing FFXV (Which I hope kicks ass despite not even being announced yet). I'll definately pick up this game n' enjoy it, if I can shell out the money for it. I'm gonna be all over my TaruTaru character (Forgive me, but the new names are just unnecessary, especially considering there are NO NEW RACES >.>)

[otakumasterage]

Im fine with haveing these online games in the main title. In the end they are Final Fantasy games and seeing how good XIV looks, you can tell they put alot of work into it and it deserves to be in with the roman numerals. Id cant wait till i can play this! Not sure if Ill be able to, cause of the money...I have none...

[spirawase]

Wow, the fires of the FF fanfags are fighting against each other despite XI not only pouring more money into the company than any FF but has more story, depth, characters, things to do and of course playing with fucking people around the damn world at all times. Tell me what FF game has ever even touched on this?


So much truth in this, and the rest of your post.
I still believe a lot of the spin-offs that SE made would never have been possible without the cash-cow revenues from XI backing them up. XI has made more money for SE than the rest of the FFs, probably combined... I'd say the fact that XIII was planned so grandly as Fabula Nova Crystallis might also have been attributed to XI's ability to keep the company afloat even if all their other gaming projects flopped.

I'm not saying that everyone who plays FFXI (or in future FFXIV) will like it, because tastes differ.. but nobody I know, and I've played for 7 years in FFXI so I've met a lot of people from all over the world in it, and on community forums and stuff. Nobody I know who has played FFXI in depth has ever faulted it for not being a good Final Fantasy. Faulted for game mechanics yes, faulted for MMORPG grind, yes.. but never ever because it didn't live up to the Final Fantasy brand name.

FFXI is so much more Final Fantasy that a lot of other FFs, and I know I've said this before earlier, but there is much truth in it.

And the story is so amazing. The story mode, the missions.. have always been engaging. The early cutscenes pale in comparison to what we get now, but the game has come a long way, and they still managed to convey the story pretty well.

I freaking cried when I completed CoP. That was within a month that the final BC (8-4) was released.. and that feeling was more intense than with the endings of other FF games Ive played. The struggles of getting thru the game with friends.. the hours spent.. that really built up emotions.. Fun times indeed.

Can't wait for XIV to come so that I can go thru that again...

[doeman]

i'm not a fan of online games anymore because of the way jack tretton announced 14. fucking bastard.

[mereshell]

im very excited for this title. as long as they fix up what was wrong in 11 then it will be undoubtedly successful. maybe even persuade wow users.

[Saabon]

I can't pull money out of my ass for monthly fees, dammit. D:

[moogleboi]

I can pay for XVI, but I won't. I'm giving it a big fat pass. Simply because of the online fee.

I hate paying a monthly fee for games. I end up feeling burdened to play them, and because of this, get put off entirely.

Besides, I'm not big on MMORPGs anyway. The leveling and traveling are usually tedious, the missions are all predefined and feel pointless and time-wasting and the story often feels disconnected.

To be frank, XVI looks like the same recycled MMO garbage with better graphics (also, who pulled the name 'Eorza' out their ass? It needs to be shoved back up there, hard).

[Falsate]

I can pay for XVI, but I won't. I'm giving it a big fat pass. Simply because of the online fee.

I hate paying a monthly fee for games. I end up feeling burdened to play them, and because of this, get put off entirely.

Besides, I'm not big on MMORPGs anyway. The leveling and traveling are usually tedious, the missions are all predefined and feel pointless and time-wasting and the story often feels disconnected.

To be frank, XVI looks like the same recycled MMO garbage with better graphics (also, who pulled the name 'Eorza' out their ass? It needs to be shoved back up there, hard).
And I agree with pretty much most of this. Considering I don't play my PS3 that much to have a monthly fee issued to me..

[Lymle]

I love MMORPGs, but I'm paying for one, I usually get tired of them before a long time playing. Tho I'd absolutely buy it if it was free.

[doeman]

wait for diablo 3 :D

[spirawase]

Its strange how recycled MMO concepts or ideas are garbage but recycled offline RPG stuff is actually tolerable..?

There is no such thing as real originality in the world anymore, but taken as it is, most MMORPGs are the same as most offline RPGs - the same thing but different.
At least within the FF series, we can already see that FFXIV is nothing like FFXI. The fact that races are similar is a moot point, because OMG Humes have been around since FF1!! And people seem to enjoy the idea of races and species coming back to begin with, like Chocobos and Moogles.

@moogleboi

first off, its bugging me so i'll say it. 14 is XIV. 16 is XVI.
and its Eorzea.

your complaints about MMORPGs are sound and mostly true. but do consider this. Leveling and travelling in offline RPGs is often tedious too. You probably spend less time, but it doesn't make the routine much more bearable. I'd say the benefit of playing online is at least you won't be alone in the process and you do make friends and have people to chat with. It actually gets pretty enjoyable because of that.

Missions are all predefined... is kind of an oxymoronic statement. Firstly because all missions are predefined in all games. If its open ended, then its still pre-defined as "open ended", and if its somehow not pre-defined, then its not a mission. If you want to do stuff on your own will, no one is stopping you either way too.
Pointless and time-wasting is also subjective, but its your opinion to hold. To some playing games itself is time-wasting. To others, dodging 100 lightning bolts is pure joy and totally worth the time.

Also, i'd like to make special mention that most MMORPGs stories ARE disconnected, but that statement does not apply to FFXI at all, and for that reason I'd say FFXIV as well. FFXI conveys story through cutscenes, which are quite rarely used in MMORPGs - i believe it was the first to do so. It also emphasizes on an MMORPG story where you actually are the hero, instead of someone just playing in a world where the story has already been written (like say WoW). That is the core difference between FFXI and other MMORPGs and the defining quality that sets it apart from other online games most.
Personally i feel that FFXI has a very strong story (but it also has a lot more opportunity to develop it) and ranks amongst my top 3 FFs in terms of story/storytelling/characters/direction (the other 2 are VIII and XIII).
So really, I have good faith in believing that FFXIV's story will be anything but disconnected.

[doeman]

Its strange how recycled MMO concepts or ideas are garbage but recycled offline RPG stuff is actually tolerable..?

There is no such thing as real originality in the world anymore, but taken as it is, most MMORPGs are the same as most offline RPGs - the same thing but different.
At least within the FF series, we can already see that FFXIV is nothing like FFXI. The fact that races are similar is a moot point, because OMG Humes have been around since FF1!! And people seem to enjoy the idea of races and species coming back to begin with, like Chocobos and Moogles.

@moogleboi

first off, its bugging me so i'll say it. 14 is XIV. 16 is XVI.
and its Eorzea.

your complaints about MMORPGs are sound and mostly true. but do consider this. Leveling and travelling in offline RPGs is often tedious too. You probably spend less time, but it doesn't make the routine much more bearable. I'd say the benefit of playing online is at least you won't be alone in the process and you do make friends and have people to chat with. It actually gets pretty enjoyable because of that.

Missions are all predefined... is kind of an oxymoronic statement. Firstly because all missions are predefined in all games. If its open ended, then its still pre-defined as "open ended", and if its somehow not pre-defined, then its not a mission. If you want to do stuff on your own will, no one is stopping you either way too.
Pointless and time-wasting is also subjective, but its your opinion to hold. To some playing games itself is time-wasting. To others, dodging 100 lightning bolts is pure joy and totally worth the time.

Also, i'd like to make special mention that most MMORPGs stories ARE disconnected, but that statement does not apply to FFXI at all, and for that reason I'd say FFXIV as well. FFXI conveys story through cutscenes, which are quite rarely used in MMORPGs - i believe it was the first to do so. It also emphasizes on an MMORPG story where you actually are the hero, instead of someone just playing in a world where the story has already been written (like say WoW). That is the core difference between FFXI and other MMORPGs and the defining quality that sets it apart from other online games most.
Personally i feel that FFXI has a very strong story (but it also has a lot more opportunity to develop it) and ranks amongst my top 3 FFs in terms of story/storytelling/characters/direction (the other 2 are VIII and XIII).
So really, I have good faith in believing that FFXIV's story will be anything but disconnected.
i agree with what you said, but that doesn't shake the feeling that moogle brought up.

I hate paying a monthly fee for games. I end up feeling burdened to play them, and because of this, get put off entirely.
unlike offline rpgs, time and money can be an obstacle after purchasing the game. i don't know if you can understand because you seem like someone who can really commit themselves to playing a game. i on the other hand would constantly be reminding myself to "play the game and get the most out of my money". life gets in the way allot and it'd seem like too much of a hassle. that's why i brought up diablo. a free and fun online game!

[moogleboi]

you seem like someone who can really commit themselves to playing a game. i on the other hand would constantly be reminding myself to "play the game and get the most out of my money". life gets in the way allot and it'd seem like too much of a hassle
I dunno really.

Unlike when I was a kid, nowadays I'll play a game and once I've finished the story it'll collect dust on my shelf. It's not just that though. Like, with Uncharted 2, I adored that, I played the multiplayer for sometime after I'd finished the story, and then they introduced a penalty system wereby if you got disconnected you had 15 matches worth of money taken from you. That really put me off.

Other games like Eyepet and Tekken proved more fun when I had mates round. And GTA IV gets plenty of attention when I'm not stuck on it.

It seems my PS3 has been collecting dust recently, my gaming desktop too (use my netbook for casual use) because I've got so much work since I've gone back to college. Despite this, I'm still poor at managing my time. What time could have been spent making my money's worth of my console and probably receiving more leisure out of the time, is spent on the PC IMing/listening to music/browsing.

I think it's the idea of doing something, considered in the eyes of an adult, less constructive that puts me off subconsciously. Once the workload quiets down in a week or two I'm putting my feet up.

I really miss being able to get totally hooked on games.

Also, spirawise, I agree with a lot of what you said.

[doeman]

growing up sucks.

[spirawase]

definitely.

you can so feel the difference as you grow up playing the games.

I remember back when I started FFXI.. didn't sleep for 3 days straight and I could do it because I was in between school and had the stamina too.
a few weeks back I could barely pull an all-nighter just for FFXIII. It became painful to stay up lol. And of course, a lot harder to just drop down everything just to play a game.

as people grow older, they seem to have less time with games, not just "free time" but time they'd be willing to spend on a game in general.
a friend of mine tried FFXIII and felt like he no longer had patience to play RPGs, as much as he liked it.

but I'm also still looking forward to FFXIV because it'll be a new experience and I REALLY want to feel excited about that game like i did with the FFs before it. I miss the wanderlust of starting over in a new and unknown game / world.
and at the same time, wonder how I'll ever have enough time to play it for long.

[doeman]

a friend of mine tried FFXIII and felt like he no longer had patience to play RPGs, as much as he liked it.
as much as i hate to say it, i've reached a stage somewhat semi-similar to your friend. if a game is fun, i can force myself to play it, but if it's too tedious... then... :wtf:

i'll use Lost Odyssey as an example. i'd love to finish it, but i stopped mainly because the game was a chore to play. 15 seconds of running around and BAM, random enemy encounter. the normal battles can take anywhere from 2-5 minutes... depending on your LUCK. it's fuckin ridiculous. compare that to ff12. HUGE environments to explore and lots of running around, but guess what? at least i was moving forward unlike in LO. sheesh, sometimes you'd be stuck in one friggen area for half an hour because you ended up fighting like 5 enemies.
screw that game, i'm not gonna waste my time on it anymore. i have better things to play.

[blackspike]

Online games and Offline games are two whole different things. There may be a lot of people who like them, that's okay, but there are also a lot of people who don't.

Personally l prefer Offline games. Simply because they are Offline and l can play them where l want, when l want and without a monthly fee.

I'm fine with Offline games with Online features like the Online shop in FFXIII. They are optional and if l want to use them, l can. But l dont have to. As long as it's optional and not a essential part of the game, l don't care if it has a lot of Online features. If so, l would probably even use them, but only because they are free, not important to the game itself and it would be a relief.

[Falsate]

The Online Shop is Final Fantasy XIII isn't actually online as in accessing the internet, it's just part of the whole game. Cocoon is primarily an advanced society full of cutting edge technology, so the idea of an "Online" Shop just fits the theme.

'Virtual Online Shop' within the game.

[blackspike]

The Online Shop is Final Fantasy XIII isn't actually online as in accessing the internet, it's just part of the whole game. Cocoon is primarily an advanced society full of cutting edge technology, so the idea of an "Online" Shop just fits the theme.

'Virtual Online Shop' within the game.

Is that so? :wtf:

Oh, well, my bad. But you got my point l think.

[Saabon]

One good thing about offline RPGs are that you can play it whenever you want, without this axe above your head that pressures you to play. I think I stretched my FFX playthrough to over a year. If this is an online RPG, i will have to pay for so many months of subscription fee, its not even funny. It makes the game more fun, to be honest. You can just enjoy it as it is without worrying about time limit and whatnot.

The only thing stopping me from playing FFXI is the monthly fee. I was very tempted to buy the game when I saw it on sale but I just don't have the money to pay for it every month. Nor do i have time to fully utilize the 30 days free subscription that the game gives.

[dablemont]

I tried playing FFXI on my PC when it was released among with a few other MMOs just to try them. But I never got into them, because it just got boring to me, not to mention the random people being jerks every once in a while. I also don't like having to pay them monthly and having to play the same game over and over; I'd much rather buy other offline games. Even though it might be more expensive than maintaining one MMO account, I prefer the diversity and being able to play fresh things. I simply can't stand logging in/playing the very same game for more than a month in a row, and those games simply require it and a huge amount of time.

But yeah, to sum up: monthly fees + same repetitive stuff = I don't play MMOs... XD

[spirawase]

MMORPGs are like that i suppose. A main issue with them is really the cost. It's not much per month, but if you're going to play it in the long term it does add up. Over the course of about 7 years playing the game, I just realised that I've spent around $1000 in subscription fees. There were months I didn't play much at all either, but kept the account active so that my stuff would not get frozen, or I'd log in once a week to check the AH and chat..

It takes quite a bit to get into an MMORPG i suppose, even with FFXI.. because although there is a story, there's never any real compulsion for you to do it unless you want to know more about the story, or you want to get the rewards.
And it does get a little bit lonely if you're doing everything by yourself, which is why its always best to start along with a friend or a group of friends so you can pull each other into the game lol. Making friends along the way helps too I suppose.
Of the people that I play regularly with now, I knew like none of them in my first 3 years of play lol.. so its a very human, social thing. You'll join some social circles and leave others.

[oasisx]

From what i've read, ff11 and ff14 actually have storylines. I know nothing about online games so i'm really curious how the story actually advances? Every story will have main characters. Who are the main characters in an online game who actually drives the story? You yourself as the player or the NPCs?

[doeman]

well, in diablo 2, YOU are the character that drives the story. it probably varies from game to game though.

http://i49.tinypic.com/352qcn4.jpg (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showpost.php?p=262620&postcount=16)

[Wind]

I can pay for XVI, but I won't. I'm giving it a big fat pass. Simply because of the online fee.

I hate paying a monthly fee for games. I end up feeling burdened to play them, and because of this, get put off entirely.

Besides, I'm not big on MMORPGs anyway. The leveling and traveling are usually tedious, the missions are all predefined and feel pointless and time-wasting and the story often feels disconnected.

To be frank, XVI looks like the same recycled MMO garbage with better graphics (also, who pulled the name 'Eorza' out their ass? It needs to be shoved back up there, hard).

Think of it this way, some games come with glitches or patches (and in some cases design flaws). Montly fees cover keeping the game running as well as putting dinner on the designer's plate. It's like paying to use a particular location for whatever event your holding. 15$ a month is pretty cheap to keep a game running as opposed to ordering the 100$ FFXIII :P.

I have to agree with you on the recycing bid. SE is marketing the game toward its the XI community (and not a fanbase, two different things) instead of adversting correctly toward the MMO and Casual/Hardcore demographics. Still its way to early to say how this game is going to be (or what it holds down the future) as with every mmo, is constantly changes. IE. FFXI is a completely different game as opposed to 3 years ago.

[spirawase]

From what i've read, ff11 and ff14 actually have storylines. I know nothing about online games so i'm really curious how the story actually advances? Every story will have main characters. Who are the main characters in an online game who actually drives the story? You yourself as the player or the NPCs?

Basically the story usually advances through the use of cutscenes.

It usually starts with you initiating conversation with a specific NPC or zoning into an area. Cutscenes themselves are mainly watch only, although they do include options to choose different things to say / different ways to respond, or a minigame on the side.

Battles relating to the storyline are usually done in battlefield (we tend to call them BC) areas, or are monsters that are spawned in the open-field for players to battle. Battlefields may also come with different kinds of objectives other than defeating bosses, such as protecting an NPC, or escorting someone through the battlefield area, but those are less common.

There are a lot of 'main characters' in the story. Each nation has its host of national heroes and figures (including Shantotto from Windurst, who's featured in Dissidia), they add flavor to the story and interact with you, the adventurer in the story. However, ultimately, you the player are the hero of the storylines. And thats mainly how it works. In terms of mission storylines, the only player that exists in the game is you - so you'll never hear NPCs referencing your friends or the party you fought with, just you.

[doeman]

so you'll never hear NPCs referencing your friends or the party you fought with, just you.
in a way, doesn't that suck? :aldo:
wouldn't it be nice if the game recognized you AND your party's achievements? can't beat WOW alone ya know :ohmy:


(http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showpost.php?p=262620&postcount=16)

[J!ZzZY]

in a way, doesn't that suck? :aldo:
wouldn't it be nice if the game recognized you AND your party's achievements? can't beat WOW alone ya know :ohmy:
Because it's funny as hell.

Female NPCs:"Thanks for saving us!! Who're those guys behind you?"

doeman:"Oh, just some lame fucks. Come hoes, give me a proper questing reward... ;3"

Female NPCs:":awesome:"

Gaminex:"WTF just happened?"

I look forward to seeing you online you heartless bastard.

[Wind]

in a way, doesn't that suck? :aldo:
wouldn't it be nice if the game recognized you AND your party's achievements? can't beat WOW alone ya know :ohmy:

It's debateable. In alot of cases, your character is recognized as the hero or savior. However it also raises a bit of de immersion as there are other people with you in the majority of the missions.

There is also the point in as what is the meaning and purpose of your time in the mmo as it varies between games. With WOW, for example, you can easily "beat" the game by yourself by getting pvp armor or maxing out rep with the towns and other nations. With XI, its a bit more developed yet unseen due to the age and not shown gauges (rather sentences) of your status with that nation.

So again, MMOs give the opportunity of giving players to do whatever they want. So if you're goal was to be the best pvper and you succeeded at it, you beat the game in your own likeness with a score and in some cases rl rewards. If it was to complete the story then you gained emotional and in some cases real life change within yourself as you "actually" did kill Promathia and saved the land.

There is a "massive" misconception that online games have no goals unlike their offline counterparts. Rather the goal is up to the player making responsibility a driving factor of the game.

[doeman]

Because it's funny as hell.
it's not THAT funny :aldo:

There is also the point in as what is the meaning and purpose of your time in the mmo as it varies between games.
when i said "beat WOW", i was referring to it's story, but whatta ya mean it's doable by yourself? i've seen vids of people raiding places with 30+ person groups.


(http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showpost.php?p=262620&postcount=16)

[spirawase]

WoW has a playable story?
guess i never touched or found that for the month i played.

Like wind said, its really debateable whether it sucks that NPCs never mention who you're with. In the first place, its mainly because you're the one the storyline is scripted to mention and you don't have to progress in the story immediately, its as you wish (or as much as the missions are available), so the people you're partied with maybe different. Also because handling extra coding just to account for friends is complicated and kinda unnecessary.

Imagine an NPC going: Thanks to you and the guy behind you who was leeching and doesn't speak any English, although I've not actually seen him before with you, I guess you picked him out in a shout, oh anway, thanks to you and that guy, we are saved!

The other thing is that with missions, everyone who does it will get the same cutscene, so its as if everyone is alone, although they're playing together. In that sense, missions are directed as if you were playing a single-player game, but the gameplay behind it could be anything but that.

Distinctions should also be made between missions and other forms of content, at least in XI. I'm not sure if XIV will follow suit (though it likely will). Missions are content that form the main storyline of the game, so even though FFXI is an MMORPG, to beat the game (in its traditional sense) would mean to clear all the missions, which is actually pretty easy to do.

That said, as an MMORPG, even the missions themselves are entirely optional content. You don't have to do them to play, but there are usually in-game advantages for doing so, like special eq, or unlocking areas that you cannot previously access. "Raids" or hunting elite mobs in the game are a totally different aspect of the game, but they too are entirely optional as well.

If we're talking about beating the game in various other ways, then its a lot harder in an MMORPG due to the expansive and free nature of the game. And the goals here are entirely made up by players. This much is true about the assumption that there is no goal forced upon you in an MMO.

[Saabon]

when i said "beat WOW", i was referring to it's story, but whatta ya mean it's doable by yourself? i've seen vids of people raiding places with 30+ person groups.


LEEEEERRROOOYY JEEEENNKIIINNNNSS!!!!!

:wtf:

... The only MMORPG I play is Maple Story. And we all know grinding in those games are hell. D:

[doeman]

jeez spira... you really have allot to say about mmo's :wtf:
what's your take on good ol' leroy jenkins?

http://i49.tinypic.com/352qcn4.jpg (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showpost.php?p=262620&postcount=16)

[Wind]

it's not THAT funny :aldo:


when i said "beat WOW", i was referring to it's story, but whatta ya mean it's doable by yourself? i've seen vids of people raiding places with 30+ person groups.

Its doable by yourself in quite a bit of aspects. For one, WOW is a very casual and solo MMO. A lvl 50 character dressed in greens can, in fact, go into instances and solo it (I've personally done this). Granted endgame (or at least were endgame) instances and content are much harder, but they can still be soloable in some cases and or with fewer people (by virtue of the raising the level cap, wearing equipment and the players overall skill). I'm not saying a lvl 80 Death Knight can solo kara, but a party of 5 80s in Epic equip are not going to have the scale of danger as opposed if they were 70.

Like I said, MMOs give choice as to what your objective is. Mine in WoW, for example, was to explore the entireity of the game (not necessarily reaching max level or getting the best equipment). As a result, I saw many things and been to various places that the "mass" of players never saw. Like going to the GM Mount Hyjal area or finding the orphange of children in Nagrand (that can only be accessed by having a flying mount).

If you wanted to be the best pvp champion, one may roll as a pvp heavy job (Hunter and Lock for ex) and make a character suited just for pvping. Therefore you "can" beat the game because it provides opportunty for players to decide what they want from and for themselves.

@ Spirawase, WoW does have a lore and story. However it is not on the scale as XI presents itself. Rather there are in game text, instances and places to visit. As a result, the game itself presents as if it has very little or none, but in actuality has a very rich lore (I mean, by paper purposes, do none of the npcs or events have some sort backstory to them?) Theres a reason why "Wrath of the Lich King" is called "Wrath of the Lich King".

[spirawase]

@doeman
i guess i do :P
leroy jenkins was funny when i saw it in 2006 ish.. not anymore though. or chuck norris for that matter.

@wind
i get what you mean.. I'm pretty aware of the WoW lore and so on, I loved WC3 and played it only cos of the story lol, but WoW never came across to me as having an immersive story.
It felt a lot more like D2, in that you're chasing after a story, rather than being part of it. like, I don't know cos I haven't gone that far, but i think the 'story cutscenes' never reference you as a player, your significance, or may not even include you. my point being, you dont feel like the hero, you're just in for the ride, or hopped on the bandwagon somehow..
thats what I get from pretty much every other MMORPG i've played.. in that sense, it doesn't have much of a playable story.