To those naysayers who say FFXII has no story or character development...

[Kuja Las Vegas]

Browse this text dump:

http://www.games.net/external/107711/122120/gamerhelp/final-fantasy-xii/

Then tell me this game had no story or character development.

To those who say it had no love story - remember the wedding between Ashe and Rassler in like the opening cinematic? It had the love story out of the way right away. Compare to FF9, where Zidane doesn't even meet Dagger until a few minutes after the game's opening, and the love story develops gradually beginning by the time they first reach Lindblum.

[Kitmitsu]

A script can be a millions words long and still not be a decent story. I don't believe I've heard anyone say it had "no story at all". Just that it didn't have a very good one.

Also, you can hardly call FFXII a love story just because it had a wedding at the beginning :lol:.

[Nagadick]

Browse this text dump:

http://www.games.net/external/107711/122120/gamerhelp/final-fantasy-xii/

Then tell me this game had no story or character development.

To those who say it had no love story - remember the wedding between Ashe and Rassler in like the opening cinematic? It had the love story out of the way right away. Compare to FF9, where Zidane doesn't even meet Dagger until a few minutes after the game's opening, and the love story develops gradually beginning by the time they first reach Lindblum.

Obviously you have no idea how a script works. You could have 1000 pages of script and if it's got no real content, then it's going to suck. Simply pasting a script proves nothing. Saying FF XII has a love story because it has a wedding scene is like saying Top Gun is about motorbikes because Tome Cruise rides one in a few scenes.

[Fruit Bat]

I think the game had a good story, but I liked how it was different from all the previous FF's, which we all know; cannot occur. EVER. It's like treason.

Plus, I agree with Rob, a wedding in the beginning does not fucking count as a love story. Granted, I could have cared less if it had one.

[Shanana]

... Are you SURE you're not GalvanizA? Or at least his brother or some shit?

[Jaggerjack]

... Are you SURE you're not GalvanizA? Or at least his brother or some shit?

At least galvanizA was kinda funny (in a pathetic kind of way but....) he only post some stupid text, and thinks he´s right, when he is not :wtf: I still suport the ban-hammer option, no one agree? :aldo:

[Rag]

I think the game had a good story, but I liked how it was different from all the previous FF's, which we all know; cannot occur. EVER. It's like treason.

Precisely, it had a good story even if anyone liked it or not. Its obvious those who still say otherwise are morons who did not understand it, and most FF fans are morons from what I see around internet.

[Whiplash]

Oh dear god PLEASE tell me this is a pisstake.

[Entonations]

Precisely, it had a good story even if anyone liked it or not. Its obvious those who still say otherwise are morons who did not understand it, and most FF fans are morons from what I see around internet.

Haha agreed.

[miiiiiiiiiike]

Precisely, it had a good story even if anyone liked it or not. Its obvious those who still say otherwise are morons who did not understand it, and most FF fans are morons from what I see around internet.

I understood it completely, I'm not a moron, and I still think it sucks compared to the stories in other FF games. There was barely any character development throughout the game, cut-scenes were so few and far between, and there wasn't really any connection with any of the characters. I didn't give a shit about a single one of them. Unlike other FF games where there is a LOT of dialogue throughout the game, almost every few minutes (when you're not just trying to level up and fight shit).

It wasn't a bad game. But it wasn't nearly as good as the rest. At all.

People need to stop talking about this already the game came out 3 years ago.

[Fruit Bat]

I understood it completely, I'm not a moron, and I still think it sucks compared to the stories in other FF games. There was barely any character development throughout the game, cut-scenes were so few and far between, and there wasn't really any connection with any of the characters. I didn't give a shit about a single one of them. Unlike other FF games where there is a LOT of dialogue throughout the game, almost every few minutes (when you're not just trying to level up and fight shit).

It wasn't a bad game. But it wasn't nearly as good as the rest. At all.

People need to stop talking about this already the game came out 3 years ago.

Well, I think it was on par with everything else. The production values were there, just like every other FF. It was just a very different, VERY different FF game, and it did not cater to everyone else.

Mainly due to the fact that everyone had been trained to expect a certain kind of story after 10 (if you count it, 11) games.

[Nagadick]

Precisely, it had a good story even if anyone liked it or not. Its obvious those who still say otherwise are morons who did not understand it, and most FF fans are morons from what I see around internet.

So anyone who disagree's with you is instantly a moron?

[Thula]

Meh im not even gonna read that. The story was there.
But whoever directed the animated sequences must seriously think to go away and never come back because the acting sucked.
I do not deny that others FF sequences might have been overdramatic *coughStekidaNecough* but in FFXII were totally plain and emotionless and the characters were barely talking to each others let alone interact :wtf:

[Ramenzilla]

It had a story, but not a very engaging one, at least not for me. It seemed like the characters barely interacted with each other and like...vann being the main character? random. he didn't really do anything or discover anything about himself, he was just there.

I liked the game for the combat and balthier/fran, lol.

[Falsate]

I'll be the vague one: It had no depth.:aldo:

You met a character and that's as far as it'll go.

[Kuja Las Vegas]

Like Interficio said, it was a very, very ,very different game than previous entries. If you ask me, FFXII was like some sort of "Single Player MMO Offline Simulation Mode."

Not everyone has the ability, chance, time, or money to play a real MMO like FFXI. Plus you can no longer hardly find any PS2 hard drives out there these days. So I'm glad Square gave people who never got to play XI, a chance to experience what a Final Fantasy MMO might be like, except optimized for Single-Player through the ADB system.

So if you picture FFXII as being a Single-Player "campaign" variant of an MMO, similar to the offline story mode of Phantasy Star Portable, except with a gigantic and well thought out single player campaign mode, you'll understand what the developers were trying to do.

There's a reason why FFX is 90% story, 10% battle, and very linear, as opposed to FFXII being 90% battle, 10% story, and very non-linear. They are diametric opposites of each other.

Plus consider how the final boss is fought. After you've reached a certain point in the "single-player MMO," you can go to Bahamut at any time you want, to finish the game. Or you can just keep doing side quests and hunts and leveling up. That screams MMO simulation to me. That's how you would theoretically end an MMO: give the players the option to end the game at any time after a certain point in the storyline is reached.

[Shanana]

No. No, you are definitely GalvanizA.

Fuck you.

[Falsate]

Isn't the end always like that in FF games? We always have the option (especially in FFs) to do the side quests and extras before finishing up?

[Fenryr]

Precisely, it had a good story even if anyone liked it or not. Its obvious those who still say otherwise are morons who did not understand it, and most FF fans are morons from what I see around internet.

I would have to agree with this.

I loved the game, it was so different from the usual FF's I had played that it felt refreshing in some sense. I loved the whole political aspect of the game and the way the politics actually felt like politics and ranks actually seemed important within those politics. Usually you get some bad guy at the head of his "Organization" and that's about it, oh yes and his round table of super-duper-bad guys.

[Nex]

The story was great, there were only two major letdowns for me-

-Character development dried up in the second half of the game.
-I just couldn't stand Vaan and Penelo being in the party. Don't get me wrong, they were interesting characters, but they were just too irrellevant.

I can understand why so many people didn't like it (lack of character interactions, political over soap opera, it's complicated), but it doesn't stop it from being a great story.

It had the potential to be one of the best stories in the series, but the second half let it down.

[Moklin]

You are stupid, at first i thought i was going to read an articles about the details on XII´s story not a dialogue faq.

And i didnt understand your comparasion with ff9. You make no sense.

[Renzo]

I think FFXII has the best story of all FF games, and even the best characters (and I'm not speaking about their development in the story, but only their personality). The problem was how they decided to tell it.

And BTW, Ashe and that guy (can't remember the name, sorry) married because of political reasons, not because they loved each other. They may have fallen in love AFTER the wedding, but we don't know that for sure (though I think Ashe fell in love with him before he died). Just because two people get married doesn't mean they actually love each other.

[Falsate]

I only ever thought the some of the characters had no relevance to the story.

The story wasn't horrible. It was good enough to keep me fishing for more.

[Eighty88Eight]

I think there is plenty opportunity to illustrate the quality of XII's story without pointing out the page count, which is completely beside the point. People often criticize FFXII's supposed lack of character development, but I never bought that criticism since the people making that charge are invariably talking about their emotional response and not anything substantial about the actual story.

The one major criticism that I do think is reasonable, but I don't agree with, is that like Matsuno's other games, FFXII isn't as typically ingratiating as other FF games(or any game for that matter). I think that has more to do with some peoples lack of an emotional response to the game, rather than anything lacking about the characters themselves, which I think is a ridiculous criticism. Even some of the minor characters, such as Old Dalan, Al Cid, Migelo, Vossler and Larsa are more believable, fully formed characters than some of the shit found in previous games in the series. Needless to say, I much prefer the formalism of Matsuno's games over the infantile sentimentality of the FFX team.

[Kuja Las Vegas]

I think there is plenty opportunity to illustrate the quality of XII's story without pointing out the page count, which is completely beside the point. People often criticize FFXII's supposed lack of character development, but I never bought that criticism since the people making that charge are invariably talking about their emotional response and not anything substantial about the actual story.

The one major criticism that I do think is reasonable, but I don't agree with, is that like Matsuno's other games, FFXII isn't as typically ingratiating as other FF games(or any game for that matter). I think that has more to do with some peoples lack of an emotional response to the game, rather than anything lacking about the characters themselves, which I think is a ridiculous criticism. Even some of the minor characters, such as Old Dalan, Al Cid, Migelo, Vossler and Larsa are more believable, fully formed characters than some of the shit found in previous games in the series. Needless to say, I much prefer the formalism of Matsuno's games over the infantile sentimentality of the FFX team.

It is precisely that "infantile sentimentality" that makes all XII haters, with their infantile intellects, be all like ZOMG! FFX was the best eva! Because it had a story!!!!1 and XII didn't!

[Nex]

I think FFXII has the best story of all FF games, and even the best characters (and I'm not speaking about their development in the story, but only their personality). The problem was how they decided to tell it.

And BTW, Ashe and that guy (can't remember the name, sorry) married because of political reasons, not because they loved each other. They may have fallen in love AFTER the wedding, but we don't know that for sure (though I think Ashe fell in love with him before he died). Just because two people get married doesn't mean they actually love each other.

Haha, wow, you're the first person I've ever seen agree with me on that. I thought XII's cast was brilliant, paticularly Balthier and Bacsh. I realised once when I was asked who my favourite FF cast was that XII's was far and away my favourite.

It's part of the reason I was so disappointed in the second half of the game- there was so much potential for the characters and they were just ignored. :(

[Nagadick]

It is precisely that "infantile sentimentality" that makes all XII haters, with their infantile intellects, be all like ZOMG! FFX was the best eva! Because it had a story!!!!1 and XII didn't!

You're pathetic. It's not just the story which makes a game good or bad. If the game has shit characters which 12 had, then people can't relate to them. This doesn't just go for FF, it goes for any game. Do you really think Uncharted would have became so popular with a shit main character?

You seem to think that your creepy fanboy-ism over 12 isn't infantile when really it is. Secondly, you obviously have ZERO idea on what people like in a game and seem to think that you have some leap in intelligence over people who don't agree with you.

People didn't only like ten because of the story. It had well structured and diverse characters, one of the best levelling systems, a good battle system and plenty of extra content to work on. It takes a high score from almost every area to make a decent Final Fantasy. On most parts, this goes for 7 and 8. Some might even say 9.

12 in my opinion had none of them and I think a lot of people agree, which is why it's classed for most people I know, as an average game, but a shit Final Fantasy.

tl;dr: FF12 was like sticking a Peugot engine in a Ferrari.

[Eighty88Eight]

You can claim FFXII sucks with all the certitude that pleases you, just as I can say with full and rightful certitude that you're entitled to be as wrong as your opinion. "A lot of people" can hate FFXII all they want, but you know, a lot of people hate 2001: A Space Odyssey too(or any other notable work in any other notable medium), so I don't know how the "a lot of people" you reference can in anyway invalidate how I, or anybody else, feels.

[Fenryr]

It is precisely that "infantile sentimentality" that makes all XII haters, with their infantile intellects, be all like ZOMG! FFX was the best eva! Because it had a story!!!!1 and XII didn't!

And it is precisely that so called infantile sentimentality that hooked many of the players. It was a fantastic story with a fantastic string of emotion and (dare I say) memorable moments.

The game developed beautifully in my opinion and to this day there's still a certain feeling I get when I think back to it. If FFX had been told in the way FFXII had been told then it would simply of not worked.

The sentimentality which you criticise was a key feature to FFX. For the game to even remotely succeed you would need to feel something at the end for the cast (will not post the ending as that is a spoiler).

[Nagadick]

You're entitled to your opinion as much as you're entitled to be wrong. "A lot of people" can hate FFXII all they want, but you know, a lot of people hate 2001: A Space Odyssey too(or any other notable work in any other medium), so I don't know how the "a lot of people" you reference can in anyway invalidate how I, or anybody else, feels. You can claim FFXII sucks with all the certitude you like, but that doesn't make it so to anybody but yourself, unfortunately.

I get the "a lot of people" from the the threads I see around. Considering we are in a Final Fantasy forum.

[Eighty88Eight]

There is a difference between drama and sentimentality. I thought FFXII had the drama and emotions, and I wrongfully noted FFX just for context. I thought that story was idiotic, full of idiotic characters and about as dramatic as a saturday morning cartoon. Not to say there aren't some very good things to say about it, and definitely not to say I didn't love FFX, because I did.

I'm not doubting you when you reference those people, I know that fact very well, I'm just doubting your intent to reference them. A lot of people have opinions about a lot of things. Most of them being thoughtless, half-baked opinions crafted by assertive, but half-witted brains.

[Nagadick]

There is a difference between drama and sentimentality. I thought FFXII had the drama and emotions, and I wrongfully noted FFX just for context. I thought that story was idiotic, full of idiotic characters and about as dramatic as a saturday morning cartoon. Not to say there aren't some very good things to say about it, and definitely not to say I didn't love FFX, because I did.

I'm not doubting you when you reference those people, I know that fact very well, I'm just doubting your intent to reference them. A lot of people have opinions about a lot of things. Most of them being thoughtless, half-baked opinions crafted by assertive, but half-witted brains.

Ohhh right! Of course. I'm sorry. I forgot that everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid. If only they were as up themselves as much as you seem to be http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/JesusBlewMeOnce/hoemai.png

[Daisuki]

I'm playing FFXII now (I want to finish it before , started two weeks ago) and I like it. It's a good game (expressions look very good during cutscenes) but its very ovverrated and to much mmorpg for me (mmorpg battle system and huge locations compared to FFX). It's enjoyable but still I think the best FF's will be the one that Kitase creates (FFVII, FFX, FFXIII and possibly FFXVI)

[Eighty88Eight]

Oh I disagree, there are an alarming number of dumb asses that like FFXII. Lets not start on who is up on who. Whatever you might think I'm guilty of, you are as well, if not more so.

[Little Miss Scarlett]

I think I'm in the 'they were good characters (except Vaan), but why the fuck didn't they interact?' crowd.

Story-telling wise, the game does seem a bit half-finished, there were just so many things they could have expanded on that they didn't, Balthier - Dr Cids relationship's for example? Seriously, they could have done so much more with that. Or Fran's sisters, Basch - Gabranth's relationship, Ashe being... all angsty? Don't care Vaan and Penelo, but there was potential there too. Though I have to admit my opinion of Penelo grew after Dissidia.

Honestly, such a waste.

I can quite easily see why people wouldn't like how the story's told, and since it obviously didn't appeal to so many people, SE must have gone wrong somewhere. Now that I think about it, a little sentimentality could've gone a long way.

[Nagadick]

Oh I disagree, there are an alarming number of dumb asses that like FFXII. Lets not start on who is up on who. Whatever you might think I'm guilty of, you are as well, if not more so.

Uhm, you and 2012 start saying people who don't like FF12 are morons. I gave you reasons on why I don't think FF12 can rank up against the 7,8 and 10, but you two just seem to think it's because everyone else is stupid. Get over yourselves, seriously. It's pathetic to watch :cathryn:

[Eighty88Eight]

You're the one sitting there and trying to play the "holier than thou" game with me. I didn't say people who didn't like FFXII are morons, I said most opinions are lousy opinions. The other guy decided to get contentious and he said what he said. *shrug*

[Nagadick]

You're the one sitting there and trying to play the "holier than thou" game with me. I didn't say people who didn't like FFXII are morons, I said most opinions are lousy opinions. The other guy decided to get contentious and he said what he said. *shrug*

You're the one sitting there and trying to play the "holier than thou" game with me.

I said most opinions are lousy opinions.

Contradiction much?

[Oliver]

You're the one sitting there and trying to play the "holier than thou" game with me. I didn't say people who didn't like FFXII are morons, I said most opinions are lousy opinions. The other guy decided to get contentious and he said what he said. *shrug*


So tell us "wise one" whose opinions are lousy and whose are not? What is your criteria? I'll be glad to finally know because all this time silly me was thinking an opinions is an opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

I didn't like the game FFXII because I didn't care much for the political story and hey I study political science. Also every time I found myself interested in a character's personal story this was cut short and replaced by yet again more politics.

Oh yeah didn't care much for the battle system either, the way you develop your characters was the same for each one and I would have liked to see some more diversity so I can motivate why I choose a certain character to be in my party other than they look good.

But that is just my lousy opinion, if someone else loved the game I totally respect that.

[Eighty88Eight]

^Well for starters, I think your opinion is lousy.... But no matter, I'm all for that. Lets not be hypocritical about how we all feel about others opinions when they don't agree with our own. The typical response is hostility, which I tend not to engage in. The fact is, you didn't emotionally respond to FFXII, and an emotional response being the absolute compass baring for any story or game, I think thats a perfectly valid and respectable reason not to like it. While I don't respect your dislike for it(speaking without any contention -- but why would I pretend to?) I fully respect your right to dislike it and be wrong. In my opinion.

You take issue with me saying that some peoples dumb opinions don't hold any sway over my own opinions, and you respond to that by saying I'm too condescending to have a valid opinion, with you conveniently taking the stand as authority on the matter. It's like an anorexic man telling an obese man that he's got an eating problem, assuming what you say about me is true. It's not though, and worse, its silly, pointless, and off-topic.

[Zuellni]

Yeah, but straight away replying to it with a scathing comment makes you off-topic too.

I liked XII. It was a great way to pass the time but there was nothing SIMPLY AWESOME in it. These balance out to make a standard 'good'. That's my opinion. Have a nice day.

[Eighty88Eight]

When a motherfucker crashes a car, the motherfucking driver gets the blame, not the passenger. So lets say I engaged in being off topic, which I'm doing now, it was still a silly point to make on his part. Typical "No YOU'RE stupider" internet attitude.

[Nagadick]

^Well for starters, I think your opinion is lousy.... But no matter, I'm all for that. Lets not be hypocritical about how we all feel about others opinions when they don't agree with our own. The typical response is hostility, which I tend not to engage in. The fact is, you didn't emotionally respond to FFXII, and an emotional response being the absolute compass baring for any story or game, I think thats a perfectly valid and respectable reason not to like it. While I don't respect your dislike for it(speaking without any contention -- but why would I pretend to?) I fully respect your right to dislike it and be wrong. In my opinion.

You take issue with me saying that some peoples dumb opinions don't hold any sway over my own opinions, and you respond to that by saying I'm too condescending to have a valid opinion, with you conveniently taking the stand as authority on the matter. It's like an anorexic man telling an obese man that he's got an eating problem, assuming what you say about me is true. It's not though, and worse, its silly, pointless, and off-topic.

88, you're being a troll now. Someone's opinion doesn't have to sway your opinion for it to be valid. Just because you don't have the same opinion, doesn't mean it's "lousy". We're not saying you're not entitled to push your views, or that you can't say why you think others are wrong. Just don't say people's opinions aren't equally as intelligent as you think yours seem to be.

Don't you think it could be your own opinions which are slightly distorted considering barely anyone ever agree's with you.

[Kuja Las Vegas]

I love creating controversy. Carry on.

[Eighty88Eight]

Don't you think it could be your own opinions which are slightly distorted considering barely anyone ever agree's with you.


No, not at all. You yourself agreed with me the other day regarding God... Perhaps you should be the one thats concerned.


We're not saying you're not entitled to push your views, or that you can't say why you think others are wrong. Just don't say people's opinions aren't equally as intelligent as you think yours seem to be.

Why would I acknowledge an opinion to be as intelligent as mine when I don't agree with it? And why would I do so when it clearly isn't? I've never been vitriolic with anybody, I never pick fights, and I never bully anybody. If I didn't think there weren't some smart people in these forums I wouldn't have ever signed up. Whenever someone makes a good point, whether its agreeable to me or not, I acknowledge it, as I've done with some posts of yours in the past. I don't see how anything I'm doing is at all contrary to the spirit of internet forums, and certainly can't be labeled as a troll.

[Nagadick]

I love creating controversy. Carry on.

Nah, this is just my monthly argument with Captain America.

No, not at all. You yourself agreed with me the other day regarding God... Perhaps you should be the one thats concerned.



Why would I acknowledge an opinion to be as intelligent as mine when I don't agree with it? And why would I do so when it clearly isn't? I've never been vitriolic with anybody, I never pick fights, and I never bully anybody. If I didn't think there weren't some smart people in these forums I wouldn't have ever signed up. Whenever someone makes a good point, whether its agreeable to me or not, I acknowledge it, as I've done with some posts of yours in the past. I don't see how anything I'm doing is at all contrary to the spirit of internet forums, and certainly can't be labeled as a troll.

No, not at all. You yourself agreed with me the other day regarding God... Perhaps you should be the one thats concerned.

I agreed with one thing you've said since you joined and that's after you changed your views and got your post undeleted by Bobbo.


Why would I acknowledge an opinion to be as intelligent as mine when I don't agree with it? And why would I do so when it clearly isn't?

You haven't said anything even slightly intelligent in this thread 88. All you've really said is people with negative opinions towards 12 aren't as smart as you or just morons. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I didn't think there weren't some smart people in these forums I wouldn't have ever signed up. Whenever someone makes a good point, whether its agreeable to me or not, I acknowledge it, as I've done with some posts of yours in the past. I don't see how anything I'm doing is at all contrary to the spirit of internet forums, and certainly can't be labeled as a troll.

Look 88, no one is saying your opinion is stupid, and as far as I've seen, barely anyone has posted any stupid reasons as to why they thought FF12 was bad. Until someone's opinion on FF12 is "I hated FF12 because the main characters name begins with a V", then I'd say they're opinion on a game is just as valid as yours.

It's not like we're in a religion thread with Cynthia now is it? Then you can see stupidity at it's purest form.

[Eighty88Eight]

Nah, this is just my monthly argument with Captain America.





I agreed with one thing you've said since you joined and that's after you changed your views and got your post undeleted by Bobbo.




You haven't said anything even slightly intelligent in this thread 88. All you've really said is people with negative opinions towards 12 aren't as smart as you or just morons. Correct me if I'm wrong.



Look 88, no one is saying your opinion is stupid, and as far as I've seen, barely anyone has posted any stupid reasons as to why they thought FF12 was bad. Until someone's opinion on FF12 is "I hated FF12 because the main characters name begins with a V", then I'd say they're opinion on a game is just as valid as yours.

It's not like we're in a religion thread with Cynthia now is it? Then you can see stupidity at it's purest form.

I never made an issue of people having a different opinion on FFXII. You said a lot of people hated it to try and buttress your argument, and I simply said that I don't care what a lot of people say because most opinions are lousy. No, the reason I gather most people dislike FFXII is for the reasons I illustrated earlier, and I think thats perfectly reasonable. Doesn't mean I have to acknowledge it anymore than I did, or that I have to agree with that. I think its entirely a matter of taste.

What I take issue with is that you say I changed my view in the other thread, and I don't know if you're feigning ignorance or simply trying to get at me, but I can assure you, I never changed my view to conform with anybody else. I asked a question that was worded incorrectly, because it gave the impression that I was being contentious, when it wasn't my intention, so I rephrased it in my very next post.

[Oliver]

Thinking that you are right and others are wrong is perfectly normal and it is entirely a matter of taste. But saying that not only others are wrong but that they are morons because of that, that is why I feel that what you say is condescending.
I agree I shouldn't have said it the way I did before because that made me sound condescending too and that was not my intention, I let it get the best of me.

[Nagadick]

I never made an issue of people having a different opinion on FFXII. You said a lot of people hated it to try and buttress your argument, and I simply said that I don't care what a lot of people say because most opinions are lousy. No, the reason I gather most people dislike FFXII is for the reasons I illustrated earlier, and I think thats perfectly reasonable. Doesn't mean I have to acknowledge it anymore than I did, or that I have to agree with that. I think its entirely a matter of taste.

What I take issue with is that you say I changed my view in the other thread, and I don't know if you're feigning ignorance or simply trying to get at me, but I can assure you, I never changed my view to conform with anybody else. I asked a question that was worded incorrectly, because it gave the impression that I was being contentious, when it wasn't my intention, so I rephrased it in my very next post.

First of all, I didn't see when you had to agree with someone's opinion. That why we have opinions in the first place. I'm saying don't say people's opinions are stupid when they're not. Say you disagree and why, but don't be patronizing.

As for the other thread, you deleted your post and Bobbo brought it back. As for the rest of it, it changed pretty badly since your original "atheism doesn't exist" post.

[Eighty88Eight]

I encourage you to enlighten me. Go post in that thread how I changed my opinion.

I don't sit here and tell people they're stupid because they disagree with me, I still find it curious that you of all people are trying so hard to label me with that kind of attitude. It seems most of these arguments I see you engaging in degrade into these kinds of roundabout, pointless debates over inconsequential minutia.

And for the record, I didn't call anyone a moron, which is the most startling fact in this whole argument.

[Zuellni]

>Goes and looks through whole argument<
Good point. Or maybe I didn't look hard enough, or you used a synonym, but I couldn't find the word moron in any post besides Oliver's.

How about, "I didn't slap you; I high-fived your face!" ?
Opinions are opinions. From the point of view of the guy recieving the *ahem* face high-five, he got slapped. The other person is either blatantly lying or telling the truth. There's always at least two sides to an argument.

And I expect to be ignored when I say something along the lines of 'have a nice day' at the end of my posts, no matter how good my point is. No particular reason, that's just how I am.

[Oliver]

"A lot of people have opinions about a lot of things. Most of them being thoughtless, half-baked opinions crafted by assertive, but half-witted brains."

I guess this is a good synonym but to be exact the word " moron" wasn't used so you're right.

I hope you have a nice day as well :-D

[Thunder God Cid]

I only ever thought the some of the characters had no relevance to the story.

The same could be said of every Final Fantasy game.