Did you like FFXII? [Archive] - Final Fantasy XIII Forums

Astraia

Aug 12 2009, 01:25 PM

oh well, i might as well share my thoughts. <_<

for me, the story was very disappointing. it was a bit....serious. a little kid wouldn't probably understand the story compared to the other ff games.

I wanted to get to know the characters more, but because of the lack of character development, i wasn't able to 'feel' the bonds between the party members. It felt so raw.

But when it comes to graphics and gameplay, i really loved it. The optional bosses are really challenging plus the sidequests were fun too. The graphics were really impressive, to think that something so massive would fit inside that dvd. XD

Oh, and i love the character designs too, except for vaan.

Wandering Hands

Aug 12 2009, 01:32 PM

I didn't like it. It had a political story rather then a personal one like the other FFs.

I guess having both your husband and father killed isn't personal enough.

tag69

Aug 12 2009, 03:03 PM

It was very sad aswell and not very many funny bits in the game
And it was a bit too broad with characture development anybody could learn anything, there should have been some boundress as to what some charcatures could learn !

iv4nsbc

Aug 12 2009, 03:34 PM

I liked it very much ...

meteor

Aug 12 2009, 03:57 PM

One of the best games ever.
Its also more adult compared to other games in the series.

Entonations

Aug 12 2009, 03:58 PM

loved the serious tone. it was a complete step forward in terms of story I think. It lived up to the political stories in vagrant story and tactics.

Eighty88Eight

Aug 12 2009, 04:02 PM

I honestly think it was the best in the series, especially its story, art design, music and it's gameplay. However, it did have some aggravating flaws, such as the lousy character development system and the lack of any sort of distractions outside of mob hunts. I would have liked some substantial mini-game to fuck around with. Also the epilogue where they play that idiotic Uematsu-Disney song was entirely misplaced.

One underrated aspect of RPG's that XII got right was the use of NPC's. Undoubtedly the best NPC dialog in gaming since Chrono Cross, especially in Olde Archades, which I'm convinced has some of the best writing in the history of gaming. Some of those little dialogs are profound, particularly the old stock broker who talks about how he had ruined many a mans life, and the tramp who's sitting at a ledge fishing "for his past" which might not fill his stomach, but "keeps him warm at night". I also love that little kid thats "bloomin' 'ungry".:lol:

Ryujin101491

Aug 12 2009, 04:56 PM

Final Fantasy XII was a really good game, puzzles were not so difficult, kind of a bummer, but the Espers were really awesome!! the magic and equipment use is good to, like the license board! genius! hahaha ^__^

My favorite character in that game is Balthier! :D

Dark Chaos

Aug 12 2009, 06:55 PM

I like the game...it was fun and challenging.

Caelignis

Aug 12 2009, 07:12 PM

Way to drop the ball on that one Chaos...:origa:

rbabi18

Aug 12 2009, 10:19 PM

I liked the graphics but didn't like the new fighting system. I don't know why but I just stopped playing it one day, which is unlike anything I have ever done on other ff games. Usually I beat it, even if I didnt like it, like ff8. That is just what I think!

Neal

Aug 12 2009, 10:24 PM

I dont mind playing the game but the story and the lack of charater development is kinda of a turn off imo.
I agree. I didn't mind playing it but I didn't really enjoy playing it. :wtf:

Hitoshura

Aug 12 2009, 11:13 PM

Couldn't stand it. Bad story, bad characters, bad music, gameplay where all I had to do was move the analog stick, theres just no redeeming factor in this game.

FF12 makes RPGs like Enchanted Arms and Infinite Undiscovery look like masterpieces.

GalvanizA

Aug 12 2009, 11:50 PM

For me it's the best in the series. It did almost everything right and the gameplay is the best out of all FF games, IMO.

defguy17

Aug 13 2009, 12:05 AM

Wonderful
Loved the battle system
Gambits are awesome!
Hope we get to use them for the AI characters (when your not controling them) in XIII

Hitoshura

Aug 13 2009, 12:13 AM

For me it's the best in the series. It did almost everything right and the gameplay is the best out of all FF games, IMO.

I like how you expressed your opinion right after mine :rolleyes:

GalvanizA

Aug 13 2009, 12:23 AM

I like how you expressed your opinion right after mine :rolleyes:

LOL! I'm glad you noticed my stealth timing.

BTW, your opinion on FFXII is wrong; fact.

Hitoshura

Aug 13 2009, 12:54 AM

LOL! I'm glad you noticed my stealth timing.

BTW, your opinion on FFXII is wrong; fact.

you opinion on FFXII is wrong; fact.

c wut i did dere? :wtf:

Caelignis

Aug 13 2009, 12:57 AM

O I C HITOSHURA, I C :wtf:

GalvanizA

Aug 13 2009, 01:19 AM

Hitoshura, I can shoot down any gripe you have with gameplay in XII; it's that well done. You don't like the gameplay as you failed to understand it.

Glacies

Aug 13 2009, 01:36 AM

I guess having both your husband and father killed isn't personal enough.Not nearly enough! No daughters, or pets or preschool teachers were killed.

MagitekElite

Aug 13 2009, 02:10 AM

I thought the game was great. It had lots of things you could do if you beat the game, like quests and leveling, even searching and getting Zodiark. It has a great battling system, for every type of gamer and point system was fair and easy, yet it was fun to use.
It brought back the classic story and feel of the older games, nothing too high tech like in X or VIII, not that I have a problem with those game, because I adore them.

It had great characters, an awesome story line and fun side quests. Although, if you were to weak and not paying attention to the story line, than you have no idea what the heck happened recently. That never happened to me of course, but its happened to a couple of my friends.

Overall, I'd score the game a 9.7 out of 10. That game was perfect. Anyone reading this who hasn't played it and is a true fan to the Final Fantasy series, you should go out and get it.

Wandering Hands

Aug 13 2009, 02:29 AM

Hitoshura, I can shoot down any gripe you have with gameplay in XII; it's that well done. You don't like the gameplay as you failed to understand it.

You're an idiot.

Hitoshura

Aug 13 2009, 05:58 PM

Hitoshura, I can shoot down any gripe you have with gameplay in XII; it's that well done. You don't like the gameplay as you failed to understand it.

Meh, I'm not gonna bother. All your gonna say is "turn the gambits off" :wtf:

Ryujin101491

Aug 13 2009, 06:16 PM

aw c'mon no fighting, all this thread is asking for is an opinion of FFXII not a battle >_<
people dislike things others really like. Yes, some parts of the game were somewhat kinda bad, but still you have to admit, it was a fun game to play. ^_^ and Balthier is an awesome character! what the heck are you talking about Hitoshura! hahahah jk :D

Hitoshura

Aug 13 2009, 07:50 PM

aw c'mon no fighting, all this thread is asking for is an opinion of FFXII not a battle >_<

Nobody in here is fighting, this guy should just learn not to get butthurt when I bash his favorite game :rolleyes:

Ryujin101491

Aug 13 2009, 08:00 PM

hahah m not butthurt, sorry it just seemed like you two were fighting. ^_^

and the only thing I mostly see in this forum is mostly arguing. But, mostly all the people here are really chill. :D

and Final Fantasy XII is in fact a good game! :P haha

^_^

i noticed i used the word "mostly" alot here hahah :P :)

DarkWan

Aug 13 2009, 08:18 PM

FFXII is a great RPG title and for me I think it provides some good changes to the FF series. I like the Gameplay (ATB) it's free moving, I like the Open world map, the ability to Change classes and styles (Weapons). I like the story but I think FFVII and FFX had shown us some epic stories so FFXII isn't on par compared to them. Ashe and Balflear (his old name I think).

I think the characters and the story weren't as strong as Final Fantasy has always used to be. But I still think FFXII has offered a unique features to us as gamers.

MagitekElite

Aug 14 2009, 02:57 AM

I think the characters and the story weren't as strong as Final Fantasy has always used to be. But I still think FFXII has offered a unique features to us as gamers.

The characters were good, but as you said, they weren't as strong as the rest. I'd think they are still great, but some characters from the past had enough flesh to them they seemed pretty real. I won't state who, but its not who you're thinking.

FFXII is a great RPG title and for me I think it provides some good changes to the FF series. I like the Gameplay (ATB) it's free moving, I like the Open world map, the ability to Change classes and styles (Weapons). I like the story but I think FFVII and FFX had shown us some epic stories so FFXII isn't on par compared to them. Ashe and Balflear (his old name I think).

I loved the game for most of that as well. The ATB to the game was really fun, and I've played a lot of ATB games. The best part out of the equipment, battle and summoning system for me, would be the weapons. I loved how you could equip any character with any weapon. Sword, spear, gun, bow and cane! Didn't matter which character you liked to play as.

Final Fantasy X was my third fav out of the Final Fantasy series, so I get what you mean by the story being epic.

Falsate

Aug 14 2009, 03:07 AM

Where Final Fantasy XII DOESNT fail is the sidequest and ending games. That has to be one of the strongest (if not) the best in the whole game. Sadly, better than it's stories.

GalvanizA

Aug 14 2009, 08:44 PM

Meh, I'm not gonna bother. All your gonna say is "turn the gambits off" :wtf:

LOL! Trust me, for everything apart from story I can refute all your gripes on this game and prove it has the best gameplay in any main series FF to date.

You're best to not even start the discussion as you will lose.

Hitoshura

Aug 14 2009, 08:54 PM

LOL! Trust me, for everything apart from story I can refute all your gripes on this game and prove it has the best gameplay in any main series FF to date.

You're best to not even start the discussion as you will lose.

Go ahead, I wanna hear what makes the gameplay soooooooo much greater than other games in the series. I'm pretty sure your gonna come up with some "open world" shit :aldo:

Hynad

Aug 14 2009, 09:06 PM

We liked it, we didn't, big deal. Best thing is if you liked it, you don't feel like you wasted money on it. Otherwise, feel like a fool for blindly buying stuff you know nothing about.

Rideru

Aug 14 2009, 10:08 PM

it was ok. i do understand why lots of people hated it though: battle system is very un-final fantasy-ish, as many said resembles an mmorpg, and of course, vaan. i don't really care about these things. not a bad game as a whole imo.

GalvanizA

Aug 15 2009, 01:02 AM

Go ahead, I wanna hear what makes the gameplay soooooooo much greater than other games in the series. I'm pretty sure your gonna come up with some "open world" shit :aldo:

Meh, I got so much shit to type to defend it but I'II post it some other time. I've got other shit to do on a Friday night like watch lolicon hentai.

Hitoshura

Aug 15 2009, 02:05 AM

I don't think that's something worth bragging about :nagase:

MagitekElite

Aug 15 2009, 02:10 AM

@GalvanizA:
Hentai?
Oh well, at least you like FFXIII (?) :>

Not only were the graphics stunning, but the game play was free ATB in an open world. Sure, it wasn't like the old FF games, but it was still a great game. :)

GalvanizA

Aug 20 2009, 03:00 AM

Not only were the graphics stunning, but the game play was free ATB in an open world. Sure, it wasn't like the old FF games, but it was still a great game. :)

It's the best FF. The only downfall was that the story wasn't finished so halfway through the game the cut-scenes became sparce.

Neal

Aug 20 2009, 12:45 PM

LOL! Trust me, for everything apart from story I can refute all your gripes on this game and prove it has the best gameplay in any main series FF to date.

You're best to not even start the discussion as you will lose.
No you can't because it's a matter of opinion you cock.

Wandering Hands

Aug 20 2009, 12:47 PM

You're attempting to reason with an individual who is thicker than the earth's crust.

GalvanizA

Aug 20 2009, 08:40 PM

No you can't because it's a matter of opinion you cock.

Yes I can because some peoples opinions can be wrong you vagina.

Kryborne

Aug 20 2009, 08:50 PM

I don't really like 12 because I found it useless to combine Kingdom Hearts with Final Fantasy

ArgoXavier

Aug 20 2009, 09:33 PM

Yes I can because some peoples opinions can be wrong you vagina.

It's factually impossible to have a wrong opinion. I agree with Neal, your a cock.

I liked XII, but its the only FF game that I haven't replayed at least once. I think what puts me off is how different it is from the other FF titles. I am a huge fan of turn based combat, especially Xs. The storyline, in my opinion, was pretty solid, but the battle system and license grid, which I also didn't prefer, turn my away every time I think to replay this game. There are better FF games out their. I will most likely replay it soon, but who knows. As far as characters go, I thought Basch and Balthier were very well done. Apart from that the rest of the characters just kinda felt like they were just along for the ride. It doesn't have the best of anything as far as they Final fantasy games are concerned, but it's still pretty solid and an essential game for all FF fans.

The game also felt a little unoriginal as far as the world is concerned. I don't think using Ivalice twice was they best of Ideas. However the races were better then they were in FFTA.

That's my opinion.

MagitekElite

Aug 20 2009, 11:09 PM

It's the best FF. The only downfall was that the story wasn't finished so halfway through the game the cut-scenes became sparce.

I remember thinking it would be stupid, but my brother got it for me when it was new along with a silver PS2 when he got home for X-man from the army. I played it after my younger siblings and loved it. I even completed it, Zodiark and all :)
I think they were getting anxious and thinking we would totally hate it if they kept it in any longer to improve the story line. I wouldn't have hated it :P

Its up with FFVI and FFV for me, coming in third or second.

GalvanizA

Aug 20 2009, 11:59 PM

Its up with FFVI and FFV for me, coming in third or second.

You have taste similar to mine; XII, VI and V are in my top 5 FF games (see sig). The gameplay in XII was too damn good, better than any other FF and so it has become my fave FF.

I'm not like those retards that play JRPGs mainly for story. I'm all about the gameplay with story just being added bonus to the gameplay experience.

Neal

Aug 21 2009, 12:06 AM

Right, so someone who likes a good story is a retard? :wtf:

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 12:13 AM

^ I don't think GalvanizA (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/member.php?u=1233) meant it in that way....did you?

Yeah, but I mostly like the old FF games. I still love the new ones, but the old ones got to me more :)
I don't know why some people don't like FFXII, it was a great game.

GalvanizA

Aug 21 2009, 12:14 AM

Right, so someone who likes a good story is a retard? :wtf:

IMO, anyone who is playing a video game primarily for the story and not for the gameplay is retarded.

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 12:18 AM

Okay, never mind, he/she meant it >.<

GalvanizA

Aug 21 2009, 12:36 AM

Okay, never mind, he/she meant it >.<

Of course I did. There are retards out there that say XII sucks as they didn't like the story or that there was barely any of it. This is a video game we're judging people not a book or movie; since when was story the key factor to judge if a game is good or not?

XII has the best gameplay in any FF so the lack of a strong story does not make the game bad. Only a retard would say the game sucks and the main reason being the story.

Hitoshura

Aug 21 2009, 12:41 AM

since when was story the key factor to judge if a game is good or not?

Because it has to be interesting if it wants me to keep playing it :wtf:

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 12:50 AM

Stories are important. Some games have too much story and others don't have enough story. Than there are games that have the perfect amount of stories, such as Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy V, IV and Prince of Persia.

There are some people, who don't care whether the story is good, but if the gameplay, battles and anything else is good.
But, yes, most of the time story lines are need and the key basic for video games. Other wise, what's the point of a pointless game? Even GTA has story line...I can only name but a few games that have no story line and are still great games.

Neal

Aug 21 2009, 01:06 AM

Because it has to be interesting if it wants me to keep playing it :wtf:
Yes, exactly. If the story is boring the it makes the game boring, usually. In this case FFXII had a shit story and the battle system was crap = shit game to me. It's all subjective to opinion anyway.

GalvanizA

Aug 21 2009, 01:10 AM

Because it has to be interesting if it wants me to keep playing it :wtf:

That is retarded logic.

It's the gameplay that has to be interesting for you to want to continue progressing with the story. If the gameplay is good and fun then you keep playing and get into the story. It should not be you're playing with story being the motivator and gameplay just the filler between cut-scenes. That's why I dislike FFX as it bathed in this logic and the retards loved it for it.

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 01:18 AM

I loved FFX Y.Y

Yes, exactly. If the story is boring the it makes the game boring, usually. In this case FFXII had a shit story and the battle system was crap = shit game to me. It's all subjective to opinion anyway.

Yes, its all opinions that matter. Yes, yes indeed....

My opinion is that the story wasn't "shit" and the gameplay wasn't "shit". If it was shit, than not so many people would have bought it. Hell, if it was shit, we all wouldn't be getting FFXIII and its sisters.
They got the battle system off of XIII. Its ATB and RPG game style mixed together.

Falsate

Aug 21 2009, 02:19 AM

Again, the only appealing thing in the game were the sidequests. You'd have to play through it before you actually get to most of them..

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 02:46 AM

The side quests weren't the most appealing thing in the game. The story and ATB battle system was.
Oh, and the stunning graphics.

Hitoshura

Aug 21 2009, 03:10 AM

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 03:20 AM

^...a genius? >.<

Let's get back on topic people before a fight breaks out. :(

How about we ask each other why we liked it instead of why we think of another as retarded. That's sounds so much better, doesn't it? ^_^

Neal

Aug 21 2009, 03:52 AM

I can't think of anything I liked. Uh, Baltheir's voice?

Caelignis

Aug 21 2009, 04:25 AM

Frans ass....:wtf:??

Falsate

Aug 21 2009, 04:35 AM

The side quests weren't the most appealing thing in the game. The story and ATB battle system was.
Oh, and the stunning graphics.
How are you going to tell me what the most appealing thing in the game if thats my opinion?

And the story? Whoa there.. let's take a step back. ATB system? That was an ADB/ Conditional system.

Zantetsuken

Aug 21 2009, 07:15 AM

I certainly liked Final Fantasy XII, it just didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game. It felt like Star Wars, as has been said before. Balthier and Fran were great characters, but I hated Ashe, thought Basch was a bit boring, and Vaan and Penelo were pointless and didn't even really contribute to the story. Gabranth was cool as shit though and Larsa was entertaining.

I loved the politicking and the change in battle system (why always keep it the same?) and the story was decent at least, but the characters were simply lacking IMO.

LittleVerdie

Aug 21 2009, 07:44 AM

To say that your own opinion is obviously the right one just shows how arrogant and ignorant you are; It's not the only one that matters.

Some people like XII and others don't. Some people like games because of the story and others don't give a crap as long as the battle system is good.

You can't call someone a retard because their own opinion of what makes a good game is different to yours.

ArgoXavier

Aug 21 2009, 08:17 PM

That is retarded logic.

It's the gameplay that has to be interesting for you to want to continue progressing with the story. If the gameplay is good and fun then you keep playing and get into the story. It should not be you're playing with story being the motivator and gameplay just the filler between cut-scenes. That's why I dislike FFX as it bathed in this logic and the retards loved it for it.

I think you one of those fucking idiots who just doesn't understand a story so they pretend it doesn't matter. The whole reason I love Final Fantasy is because of the immense amount of plot and character development. The fact that your a Final Fantasy "Fan" baffles me. Hell, I'm surprised you know how to type, don't all those weird looking shapes confuse you. Don't worry, their just letters.

It's the gameplay that has to be interesting for you to want to continue progressing with the story.AHAHAHAHA...that is the stupidest thing i think i have ever read. How old are you, seriously. You gotta be like 9 or something. XD

You can't call someone a retard because their own opinion of what makes a good game is different to yours.You can if you are in fact a retard yourself.

MagitekElite

Aug 21 2009, 08:55 PM

Ahh! Fights >.<

Alright, as I stated before (my opinion, so please don't get upset) the story does in fact matter the most. Sometimes (I said sometimes) there are games with such a good battling system, the story doesn't have to count *coughs - Halo series*
But, for a damn FF game, the story best be good or I'm not gonna buy it! I almost didn't buy FFVIII and FFVII because of I saw some things that made me think the story would be crappy, man was I wrong.

I think you one of those fucking idiots who just doesn't understand a story so they pretend it doesn't matter. The whole reason I love Final Fantasy is because of the immense amount of plot and character development.************************************** *************.(I cut the mean stuff out *sweet face*)

I'd have to agree. Half the reason I fell in love with the series, was the fact that SE could give the game a deep amount of story and character development. I really don't mind graphics, after all, I still play the old FF games that look like crappy colored boxes. Its just a bonus if it looks good ^^

GalvanizA

Aug 23 2009, 02:58 AM

I think you one of those fucking idiots who just doesn't understand a story so they pretend it doesn't matter. The whole reason I love Final Fantasy is because of the immense amount of plot and character development.

You're stupid.

If you want a good story and strong character development then buy a fucking book. In a game the gameplay should get more focus than the story, even in a RPG. XII got this shit right and that's why people that play for story don't like it.

Falsate

Aug 23 2009, 03:44 AM

Plus, don't expect every FF title made by Square Enix to be perfect. You have plenty of FFVII fools complaining about how much they love the game and the suceeding FF titles should be the same.

No. You can't always have it your way. There are people who like other FF games over VII, so quit acting like it's just the best and every FF game should be made that way. I'm just saying to those who always keep bringing back up FFVII's success. Every FF title will be different regardless.

One of the most common arguments:
VII Fanboy: "Square really started dropping after VIII.."
No they didn't, just because they didn't make the perfect "Cloud vs Sephiroth" story, doesn't mean they have dropped.

Not pointed towards anyone in particular, but for those who like bringing VII's story success into the argument (once again).

Wandering Hands

Aug 23 2009, 04:03 AM

You're stupid.

If you want a good story and strong character development then buy a fucking book. In a game the gameplay should get more focus than the story, even in a RPG. XII got this shit right and that's why people that play for story don't like it.

Good fucking god. Just shut up. You are actually wrong. Story is still an important factor. You don't watch a movie just for the fucking visuals, do you? In games, gameplay is useless without story and story is useless without gameplay.

You dumb fuck.

ArgoXavier

Aug 23 2009, 04:19 AM

Good fucking god. Just shut up. You are actually wrong. Story is still an important factor. You don't watch a movie just for the fucking visuals, do you? In games, gameplay is useless without story and story is useless without gameplay.

You dumb fuck.

What she said. I think I speak for everyone else when I say stop talking and go hang yourself.

GalvanizA

Aug 23 2009, 04:35 AM

Story is still an important factor. You don't watch a movie just for the fucking visuals, do you? In games, gameplay is useless without story and story is useless without gameplay.

You're retarded.

Film story and visuals =/= Game story and gameplay

Film story and visuals = Game story and graphics

Gameplay is something unique to games which is why it should be the focus of anything that calls itself a video game. If you want story to be the focus then read a book.

Squall_Leonhart

Aug 23 2009, 07:24 AM

Games are evolving into a more cinematic and narrative-based art. They are not just made for gameplay anymore. One of the most revered qualities of Final Fantasy games is that they have an engrossing story that makes the player want to find out what happens. I can't think of any FF game that would be nearly as good with just the gameplay by itself and no story. In other genres of games the story can be lackluster, but in an RPG story is key. If you want fun gameplay there are plenty of other genres of games that cater more to gameplay like an MMORPG or something. I'm not saying that gameplay isn't important in an RPG either, there needs to be a balance and a good mixture of story and gameplay, but ultimately a great RPG needs a great storyline. Also calling people retarded for having different opinions just shows a lot of ignorance on your part.

ArgoXavier

Aug 23 2009, 07:29 AM

CHINGLEE42

Aug 23 2009, 02:40 PM

I liked it but its far from being one of my fav FF games.

Hynad

Aug 23 2009, 04:25 PM

There has to be a balance between gameplay and the rest in a RPG game.

If the gameplay is awesome, but the story doesn't hook the player, the game usually ends up going stale and repetitive (generally speaking). When there's a good story and a good atmosphere and/or setting, it helps the player to care for what he's doing in the game, it makes him want to progress further, keeps his interest level high, etc...

Truth be told, Galvamoron, if you want to play a game solely for its gameplay, go get a pure action game or a fighting game like Super Metroid or BlazBlue. RPGs are made around a story, if you didn't get it already by now, you're more retarded than anyone you called so here.

Then again, take Super Metroid or Bioshock and strip them of their settings, atmospheres and musics and you will be left with less than stellar games.

Most factors count when it comes to giving the players a good time. Be it gameplay, story, music, setting, atmosphere, and anything else I might forget.

That you don't see that makes you the one retard here.

If you want games with gameplay only, go back to the origin of games, and play Pong, Galaga and Pacman.

Those games did age well, right? :rolleyes:

In the end, what you're saying is the same as saying that the most important thing in a movie are the visuals because by definition, a movie is:

A sequence of photographs projected onto a screen with sufficient rapidity as to create the illusion of motion and continuity.

:rolleyes:

You're the retard, seriously. Stfu already.

MagitekElite

Aug 23 2009, 05:38 PM

No. You can't always have it your way. There are people who like other FF games over VII, so quit acting like it's just the best and every FF game should be made that way. I'm just saying to those who always keep bringing back up FFVII's success. Every FF title will be different regardless.

No one can ever have it their way, unless of course they marched down to SE and demanded they get what they wanted....I tried, didn't work :lol:

One of the most common arguments:
VII Fanboy: "Square really started dropping after VIII.."
No they didn't, just because they didn't make the perfect "Cloud vs Sephiroth" story, doesn't mean they have dropped.

I thought that FFVIII sold more than VII at the time of its release?
""Thirteen weeks after its release, Final Fantasy VIII had earned more than US$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar)50 million in sales, making it the fastest-selling Final Fantasy title. The game has shipped 8.15 million copies worldwide as of March 31, 2003""
7's market:
""As of December 2005, the game has sold more than 9.9 million copies worldwide, earning it the position of the best-selling Final Fantasy title. The ongoing popularity of the title led Square Enix to produce a series of sequels and prequels under the collective title Compilation of Final Fantasy VII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilation_of_Final_Fantasy_VII).""
It took 7 till 05 to make so much, but 8 made US$50 mil and than 8.15 in only thirteen weeks. 8 became the fastest FF title to sell. I'd have to say 8 had more fame...I dunno about that last part, so scratch it out :lol:

Not pointed towards anyone in particular, but for those who like bringing VII's story success into the argument (once again).

I wouldn't have thought about it, Carbon. No worry from me. ;)

Wandering Hands

Aug 23 2009, 05:54 PM

VIII was simply riding on VII's coattails. It's the only way it sold as much as it did, because it was pretty shit overall.

meteor

Aug 23 2009, 06:16 PM

VIII was simply riding on VII's coattails. It's the only way it sold as much as it did, because it was pretty shit overall.

Indeed.
That game really bored me , there was nothing exiting in it.
And Selphie? Most stupid annoying character ever.

ArgoXavier

Aug 23 2009, 08:11 PM

Indeed.
That game really bored me , there was nothing exiting in it.
And Selphie? Most stupid annoying character ever.

I actually enjoyed VIII and though VII was just trash in comparison. There must be something that puts people off between the two.

Hynad

Aug 23 2009, 08:19 PM

Actually, between the whole of them.

People try to make correlations that have no place to be in the first place. :rolleyes:

Zantetsuken

Aug 23 2009, 09:25 PM

VIII was simply riding on VII's coattails. It's the only way it sold as much as it did, because it was pretty shit overall.

LIES! lol

Honestly though I don't understand the hate that game gets. I'm admittedly biased, but even if you aren't in love with it like I am it's still a damn good game.

MagitekElite

Aug 23 2009, 10:57 PM

It is a good game. Its just some people don't see it, Zantetsuken. Don't worry :(
(if it didn't have a spiky haired dude with blue eyes, than its trash. Or so many say.)

VIII was simply riding on VII's coattails. It's the only way it sold as much as it did, because it was pretty shit overall. I don't agree with that, but than again I don't agree with a lot of things said or done.
But I'll leave this part with "I love FFVIII, no matter what someone else thinks about it" after all, it did sell faster and better than VII did on its first thirteen weeks or a/years :D

We should probably get back on topic here. I'll start.

XII's system was something new, sure it wasn't like the old FF games we love >- RPGs of course - but it was fun for both us and the makers to try something else for change. Its the kind of system they would use in an Online game, but it so fun!

I have to admit that when I wanted to grind levels, I sometimes forgot the story bits that played before lol

Falsate

Aug 23 2009, 11:40 PM

No one can ever have it their way, unless of course they marched down to SE and demanded they get what they wanted....I tried, didn't work :lol:

I thought that FFVIII sold more than VII at the time of its release?
""Thirteen weeks after its release, Final Fantasy VIII had earned more than US$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar)50 million in sales, making it the fastest-selling Final Fantasy title. The game has shipped 8.15 million copies worldwide as of March 31, 2003""
7's market:
""As of December 2005, the game has sold more than 9.9 million copies worldwide, earning it the position of the best-selling Final Fantasy title. The ongoing popularity of the title led Square Enix to produce a series of sequels and prequels under the collective title Compilation of Final Fantasy VII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compilation_of_Final_Fantasy_VII).""
It took 7 till 05 to make so much, but 8 made US$50 mil and than 8.15 in only thirteen weeks. 8 became the fastest FF title to sell. I'd have to say 8 had more fame...I dunno about that last part, so scratch it out :lol:

I wouldn't have thought about it, Carbon. No worry from me. ;)

That wasn't towards you Magitek! Not at all! I'm only saying people keep thinking the next FF should be like VII in terms of story and battle system. In reality, Square will always push to either improve or re-invent the story and battle system.

ArgoXavier

Aug 24 2009, 12:07 AM

That wasn't towards you Magitek! Not at all! I'm only saying people keep thinking the next FF should be like VII in terms of story and battle system. In reality, Square will always push to either improve or re-invent the story and battle system.

That is a harsh reality that I have yet to face..lol

GalvanizA

Aug 24 2009, 02:30 AM

Games are evolving into a more cinematic and narrative-based art. They are not just made for gameplay anymore.

I have no beef with story being in games the problem is that people play RPGs with the story being the reason they are playing. That's wrong. It should be that you play for gameplay and expect a good story. Not that you play for story and expect good gameplay.

This is why most story gamers don't like XII as it was gameplay focused.

ArgoXavier

Aug 24 2009, 02:51 AM

I have no beef with story being in games the problem is that people play RPGs with the story being the reason they are playing. That's wrong. It should be that you play for gameplay and expect a good story. Not that you play for story and expect good gameplay.

This is why most story gamers don't like XII as it was gameplay focused.

I would disagree less if you used a different term besides RPG (Role Playing Game). RPGs put you the player in the situation of another person, their 'role', if you will. Seeing as how role playing games started on paper, their purpose is not for game play. The entire purpose of an RPG is to experience something as somebody else. So if you think about, the entire purpose of an RPG is the story, plot, and characters, not game play. I know this is a video game forum and we are talking about video games, but the RPG genre still holds true to itself.

I play Dungeons and Dragons, which is quite passably the most famous RPG their is. I don't play it for game play because the only game play their is is rolling a die and writing stats on paper. I play it to immerse myself into another realm of reality. The same is said for the reason I play RPG video games. Though game play is important since RPGs have become electronic, the story is still the only reason RPGs are made.

I know this isn't the case for everybody, but by definition and tradition, RPG are only for storyline purposes. Now go ahead and call me retarded and tell me to read a book.

Hitoshura

Aug 24 2009, 03:18 AM

Zantetsuken

Aug 24 2009, 06:12 PM

GalvanizA

Aug 24 2009, 10:30 PM

If you play Final Fantasy for the battle system and others play it for the story, what's the harm?

The harm is that if more care about story than gameplay then the developers will focus more on that. That's what X did, so when XII came out and the developers had put more focus into gameplay than story the people that play for story complained. Gameplay is important in a RPG, no other genre has such technical battle systems so I'm not wrong to play for gameplay over story.

Hynad

Aug 24 2009, 10:37 PM

Gameplay is important in a RPG, no other genre has such technical battle systems so I'm not wrong to play for gameplay over story.

Obviously, fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken and BlazBLue pale in comparison...

:rolleyes:

The shit you say.

ArgoXavier

Aug 24 2009, 11:05 PM

The harm is that if more care about story than gameplay then the developers will focus more on that. That's what X did, so when XII came out and the developers had put more focus into gameplay than story the people that play for story complained. Gameplay is important in a RPG, no other genre has such technical battle systems so I'm not wrong to play for gameplay over story.

I'll post this again because you obviously didn't read it:

I would disagree less if you used a different term besides RPG (Role Playing Game). RPGs put you the player in the situation of another person, their 'role', if you will. Seeing as how role playing games started on paper, their purpose is not for game play. The entire purpose of an RPG is to experience something as somebody else. So if you think about, the entire purpose of an RPG is the story, plot, and characters, not game play. I know this is a video game forum and we are talking about video games, but the RPG genre still holds true to itself.

I play Dungeons and Dragons, which is quite passably the most famous RPG their is. I don't play it for game play because the only game play their is is rolling a die and writing stats on paper. I play it to immerse myself into another realm of reality. The same is said for the reason I play RPG video games. Though game play is important since RPGs have become electronic, the story is still the only reason RPGs are made.

I know this isn't the case for everybody, but by definition and tradition, RPG are only for storyline purposes. Now go ahead and call me retarded and tell me to read a book.no other genre has such technical battle systemsWhat!?!?...I wouldn't be calling Final Fantasy Battle systems that technical buddy. They are probably the most UN-technical battle systems in video games today.

"How do I attack?".....Select Attack...
"How do I use Magic?"...Select Magic...
"What if I want to use an item?"...Select Item...

Final Fantasy and most other RPGs have really simple battle systems dude. That's how they make them and thats how they are suppost to be.

Have you ever actually played a Video Game besides Final Fantasy XII?...(that is a serious question.)

GalvanizA

Aug 24 2009, 11:13 PM

Obviously, fighting games like Street Fighter, Tekken and BlazBLue pale in comparison...

How many items, abilities, status ailments, battle systems manipulations (Haste and Slow in ATB and ADB), character growth customisation, stat based implications do any of these games have in comparison to a RPG?

You = Fail; try harder.

Hynad

Aug 24 2009, 11:22 PM

You clearly don't play any fighting games.

In the games I mentioned, the amount of technique required is to the point where you have to know the exact frame of animation you have to do this or that move.

In a RPG, remembering the stats is easy as hell. In fact. you don't even need to keep them in mind at all time, only when you make a character progression decision, like changing equipment or learning a new skill. It's not required for the player to keep in mind said stats in every battles.

And status effects? Are you really serious there? Yeah, it's REALLY technical to know what potion or spell is going to get rid you of each of them.

If that is what you call technical, no wonder everyone here think you're a retard.

ArgoXavier

Aug 24 2009, 11:23 PM

How many items, abilities, status ailments, battle systems manipulations (Haste and Slow in ADB and ADB), character growth customisation, stat based implications do any of these games have in comparison to a RPG?

You = Fail; try harder.

And how easy is it to do or cure all those things...Yeah character customization is nice, but it is by no means TECHNICAL. Technical is having to remember ass loads of combos and strategies. Yeah RPGs have some strategy, but they are usually a given. I think your trying to make a point but you keep using the wrong words. RPGs have simple and easy to do battle systems.

"This guy is weak to fire, how do I kill him?"...Use Fire.
"I'm poisoned, what do I do?"...Use an Antidote.
"This guy is quick, how can I slow him down?"...Use slow.
"I'm not strong enough to beat this guy, how do I get stronger?"...Level up.

Is any of this sinking in or are you just tired of being proven wrong and stopped reading my post, cause I got more?

And seriously, I want an answer...Have you ever played a non-Final Fantasy game?

GalvanizA

Aug 25 2009, 12:21 AM

My point is that there are a lot of gameplay aspects to a RPG so me playing for gameplay is justified. If you play for story then that is your choice but it's retarded to say that RPGs are mainly about story when they have more gameplay related aspects than a lot of other genres.

ArgoXavier, I play a lot of other genres and I especially like the Zelda, Metroid, Tekken,Ridge Racer, Resi, DMC, Street Fighter, Mega Man X, Shenmue, MGS, Ninja Gaiden, Guilty Gear, KOF, Halo, Gears.

Hynad

Aug 25 2009, 12:25 AM

RPGs are mainly about story.

Look at the stats, moron.

Most RPGs getting high marks are those with proper stories, settings and character development.

Millions of gamers can't be wrong.

GalvanizA

Aug 25 2009, 01:07 AM

RPGs are mainly about story.

No, they are about gameplay. They just have deeper stories than other genres of games. It's the gameplay and interactivity in the games world that makes an RPG.

An RPG is guiding an avatar through a virtual world and growing them in the process through stats, items and abilities and with choice of spoken text to NPCs. A grand story is a strong element but is only there to make the journey and world more interesting for the player.

ArgoXavier

Aug 25 2009, 02:07 AM

No, they are about gameplay. They just have deeper stories than other genres of games. It's the gameplay and interactivity in the games world that makes an RPG.

An RPG is guiding an avatar through a virtual world and growing them in the process through stats, items and abilities and with choice of spoken text to NPCs. A grand story is a strong element but is only there to make the journey and world more interesting for the player.

Your ignorance has no limit. You are merely saying the same things over and over. It is obvious you have no knowledge of this subject and any post you make is only out of stupidity. Your refusal to accept actual evidence that you are wrong proves how stubborn you are. The only thing I have left to say is that you should become more educated about the things you claim to know, or you will continue to be nothing but the pinnacle of human stupidity.

Zantetsuken

Aug 25 2009, 02:18 AM

I got a boner from Marlene in FFVII: AC and Sunny in MGS4. I'm starting to find cute girls more sexually attractive than hot girls; is that wrong? If it is then you're reading the words of a pedo in the making

By the way I really hope that's a joke

Hitoshura

Aug 25 2009, 06:05 AM

No, they are about gameplay. They just have deeper stories than other genres of games. It's the gameplay and interactivity in the games world that makes an RPG.No, RPG's should be played for it's plot, characters and presentation. Having good gameplay and music is an extra bonus.

Falsate

Aug 25 2009, 06:38 AM

Yeah, chrono trigger is a great example. An SNES game that I feel still is on my top 4 best rpgs today. Not because of the graphics, but the gameplay mechanics.

GalvanizA

Aug 26 2009, 05:55 AM

No, RPG's should be played for it's plot, characters and presentation. Having good gameplay and music is an extra bonus.

*Facepalm*

It's RPG gamers with mindsets like you that allowed that linear interactive movie bullshit of FFX get high reviews and a fanbase.

If you liked X then good for you but it shows you care less about gameplay than story. I prefer more exploration and interactivity in a RPG and XII gives me that so I like it far more.

Hynad

Aug 26 2009, 12:35 PM

*Facepalm*

It's RPG gamers with mindsets like you that allowed that linear interactive movie bullshit of FFX get high reviews and a fanbase.

If you liked X then good for you but it shows you care less about gameplay than story. I prefer more exploration and interactivity in a RPG and XII gives me that so I like it far more.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t136/Hynad/facepalm_implied.jpg

FF X only appeared to be more linear. Because of its lack of a proper overhead world map like the games prior to it.

The progression through the games has been a linear one since the beginning of the series, and is in fact inherent to most every JRPGs. You're completely blind if you didn't realize that yet.

And you mention Gameplay as something really important... Yet there were much more gameplay diversity in FF X than in XII, where everything relied on countless gambit configurations and the battle system.

Why don't you go play a real RPG for a change? You know, a game that actually put you in the role of a character... Like Oblivion, Fallout or Mass Effect. JRPGs are heavily scripted and linear games. They offer stories first, and then the gameplay comes in and supports and guide the hand of the player to the ending credits. Unlike many WRPGs where you're thrown into a setting and must decide where to go first and what to do next in order to make the story advance in one given direction.

JRPGs offer this linear story that feels like a short anime series or something similar. Many developers put a huge chunk of the budget of the game on hours of CGI or anime cutscenes, and you're trying to tell us that the stories aren't the main focus?

Seriously, if you want focus on gameplay, interaction and exploration, go play games like Fable, Oblivion or Fallout. All games have pretty generic stories but rely mostly on what you seem to enjoy most.

Eighty88Eight

Aug 26 2009, 02:31 PM

Seriously, if you want focus on gameplay, interaction and exploration, go play games like Fable, Oblivion or Fallout. All games have pretty generic stories but rely mostly on what you seem to enjoy most.I don't see why one would need to make such a leap; all you would need to do is play any other FF outside of FFX. I think the whole series has always offered a preferred balance on storytelling and gameplay freedom.

The problem with FFX is that the story it crutches onto is so idiotic and sentimental that the endeavor hardly seems worth the effort. Anyhow, I don't see how a video games exclusive role is to tell a story, regardless of genre. There are no rules on how to create an RPG, fans of JRPG's simply have a predilection for a certain style. And thats all well and good, i'm with them, although I found FFXII to be both the best game and among the best stories in the franchise that offered the kind of balance I had loved in the earlier SNES games.

Lets keep in mind that the franchise, and the genre, was started on games whose stories were paper thin, and almost entirely focused on gameplay.

iv4nsbc

Aug 26 2009, 03:29 PM

No, they are about gameplay. They just have deeper stories than other genres of games. It's the gameplay and interactivity in the games world that makes an RPG.

An RPG is guiding an avatar through a virtual world and growing them in the process through stats, items and abilities and with choice of spoken text to NPCs. A grand story is a strong element but is only there to make the journey and world more interesting for the player.

Hey Galvaniza ... This "me against the world" posture will only hurt you, could you please accept opinions that differs from yours ? I'm not saying that you have to agree, only accept ...

btt, a RPG is a ROLE PLAYING GAME, when you get to "live" the life of someone else in a specific scenario... So why would you do that ?! To react to a story, to feel the drama of someone, to get a message, to learn something ...

IMHO, RPGS ARE about story, but gameplay is a core element ... Because engage into battles is one of the big joys of a RPG ... A solid gameplay keep you connected to the char ... as well as a good story ...

Those two elements are connected, but the story is the main protagonist of a RPG ...

(sorry for my english)

Hynad

Aug 26 2009, 03:54 PM

Lets keep in mind that the franchise, and the genre, was started on games whose stories were paper thin, and almost entirely focused on gameplay.

Yet the focus shifted more and more as the series went on. FF XII tried to take the pace back to a more "FFVI" style, if I may, but it didn't really succeed.

Characters are likable, but not nearly developed enough, even compared to the core ones from VI.

I will agree that a balance between gameplay and story elements would make for the best RPG. I just don't see much of that in the JRPG genre.

It's either focused on gameplay, or story.

Take for example FF XII, which is gameplay focused, and then take Lost Odyssey, taking a more classic, out of date approach to gameplay while providing an engrossing and deep story.

The occasion where both of those aspects are represented with equal stellar quality in the same package is quite rare.

Tales of Vesperia is probably one of the few games I played from that genre that mixed both elements almost equally. Too bad the story, while developed, was such a cliché piece of rehashed dullness.

Hitoshura

Aug 26 2009, 03:55 PM

Hynad

Aug 26 2009, 03:59 PM

Yeah, somehow, if you talk about 2 things and say one of them is more important, people usually assume that the other element is not important at all. :wtf:

:rolleyes:

Go figure.

Hitoshura

Aug 26 2009, 04:02 PM

Yeah, somehow, if you talk about 2 things and say one of them is more important, people usually assume that the other element is not important at all. :wtf:

:rolleyes:

Go figure.

What's stupid is how he's accusing me of being a linear RPG lover and I have no taste...... and yet my favorite RPG this gen is Mass Effect :wtf:

Hynad

Aug 26 2009, 04:03 PM

Can't say it's my favorite, but I can say you have great tastes in games.

Eighty88Eight

Aug 26 2009, 04:09 PM

Yeah, somehow, if you talk about 2 things and say one of them is more important, people usually assume that the other element is not important at all. :wtf:

:rolleyes:

Go figure.

I think there is some divisiveness in regards to XII's plot, I don't think there is some kind of acknowledged truth about it. You were disappointed by the story for one reason or another, I wasn't. However, if you had said there should have been MORE story to help round out the various relationships between the characters, I would certainly agree with you, but as far as the characters are concerned, the story tells you all that is necessary to protect from inhibiting ones enjoyment of the plot. So I can't really agree with your premise there.

Hynad

Aug 26 2009, 04:38 PM

I will state it here again (I've done so elsewhere in the forums before), Final Fantasy XII is one of my favorite games in the series. I can still see its faults though. Or as you put it, the faults I find according to my tastes and expectations.

And I have to agree with you about Dragon Quest VIII. Even though the story was a bit cliché, it was told with such mastery and the game felt so much like the games of my childhood while still bringing all the nice modern touches into it... A true masterpiece.

I certainly can't wait to see what they have in store for DQ X on the Wii.

I'll get IX if they finally decide to release it in America, but I prefer playing my games in my living room, not on handhelds.

iv4nsbc

Aug 26 2009, 05:12 PM

and yet my favorite RPG this gen is Mass Effect :wtf:

I agree with you ... ME is one of the greatest RPGs of this gen ...

ArgoXavier

Aug 26 2009, 06:01 PM

I agree with you ... ME is one of the greatest RPGs of this gen ...

It was fantastic, but I think it should have been...'bigger'.
Lost Odyssey and Eternal Sonata were my favorites this gen, but i mean come on, how many good ones do we really have to choose from?lol

iv4nsbc

Aug 27 2009, 03:06 AM

Yeah ... You speak the truth my friend ...
but ME still have the crown ...

Hynad

Aug 27 2009, 02:10 PM

The crown...

Yes, maybe it does for the most repetitive side quests and locations in a current gen game.

Hopefully, the second game will fix all of that.

iv4nsbc

Aug 27 2009, 03:48 PM

One can hope ...

GalvanizA

Aug 28 2009, 12:48 AM

IMHO, RPGS ARE about story, but gameplay is a core element

You got it the wrong way round. The early RPGs on NES were gameplay first, story second; I mean have you even played FFI? That game had little story compared to gameplay and it just shows that you retards are wrong. RPGs are gameplay first. Story has become more important in recent years but is not secondary to gameplay. It's FFX that put story before gameplay and was a terrible video game because of it.

Hynad

Aug 28 2009, 12:59 AM

You got it the wrong way round. The early RPGs on NES were gameplay first, story second; I mean have you even played FFI? That game had little story compared to gameplay and it just shows that you retards are wrong. RPGs are gameplay first. Story has become more important in recent years but is not secondary to gameplay. It's FFX that put story before gameplay and was a terrible video game because of it.

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that story is put in front of the gameplay in FFX as opposed to the rest of the series?

The battle system is like any other in the series, you have to explore the fields to find chests, You go to shops to get better equipment and items, you chat with NPCs to get information, you level your characters by going through battles, you do sidequests to find uber equipment...

Yes, obviously, the omission of an actual overhead map clearly clouds your judgment.

Applying your logic here: The first game ever was a tennis game, so it really shows that you're a retard and that all games that came after are in fact new versions of this tennis game. :rolleyes:

If JRPGs were really about gameplay, then one would wonder why this aspect of the genre has evolved so little in its 25 years of history. :wtf:

ArgoXavier

Aug 28 2009, 01:23 AM

If JRPGs were really about gameplay, then one would wonder why this aspect of the genre has evolved so little in its 25 years of history. :wtf:

BOOM!! A Perfect point my friend.

Regarding ME: I heard the second one is much more open and that no two areas look alike. I hope that's true.

This thread has become as pointless as a Nun-Hooker.

Hitoshura

Aug 28 2009, 01:30 AM

RPGs are gameplay first

So basically you're telling me that I should be playing a game like Suikoden 2 for its gameplay........ sure thing buddy :wtf:

GalvanizA

Aug 28 2009, 01:36 AM

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that story is put in front of the gameplay in FFX as opposed to the rest of the series?

It's the linearity and the contanst long uninteractive in-game cut-scenes that play every 5 to 20 minutes of gameplay. It broke it as a video game and turned the whole experience into an interactive movie.

And the gameplay in JRPGs does evolve, it's just that it happens in the confinement of the JRPG genre; ADB and CSB are different systems.

ArgoXavier

Aug 28 2009, 01:36 AM

So basically you're telling me that I should be playing a game like Suikoden 2 for its gameplay........ sure thing buddy :wtf:

BOOM!!!! Yet another perfect point.

(I'm tired with GalvanusA, so I'm just gonna agree with people who prove him wrong.)

Hynad

Aug 28 2009, 01:38 AM

It's quite easy to come to the conclusion that the storytelling methods in JRPGs got better and better as time went because they needed to get the players hooked to something they never saw before, unlike the genre's gameplay and mechanics.

If you think gameplay in JRPGs is such a big deal, and is in fact the most important thing, you should strip any JRPG of its story.

Nothing there is much more intricate and elaborated than Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest (first of their names).

So basically, you've been playing a version of these games for quite some time now. I wonder... Would you play Final Fantasy I endlessly for the next 20 years?

GalvanizA

Aug 28 2009, 02:01 AM

If you think gameplay in JRPGs is such a big deal, and is in fact the most important thing, you should strip any JRPG of its story.

Sorry I'm shortening your posts. I'm browsing on my PSP.

Could I play FFI now? I've got it on PSP; there is no story and more (but basic) gameplay. Still, the exploration in that game puts X to shame!

Can I play any modern JRPG with story removed? Yep, almost all as the gameplay systems are more deep; XII and T deserve a mention here.

Hynad

Aug 28 2009, 02:37 AM

XII and T... more deep... hum... sure.

In XII, gameplay relies on moving an analog stick endlessly and configuring gambits every 30 minutes or so. That's deep. The rest is exactly like every other RPGs out there.

Walk around field, open chests, get into battles, gain stuff that makes characters more powerful, go to a town, buy stuff to make your characters stronger, get into a dungeon, get into battles, find stuff that makes characters stronger, fight boss, get stronger, go to town, buy stuff that makes character stronger, go to the field to access next dungeon, etc, etc, etc...

Wow, that's really deeper than FF I!

GalvanizA

Aug 28 2009, 03:22 AM

In XII, gameplay relies on moving an analog stick endlessly and configuring gambits every 30 minutes or so. That's deep. The rest is exactly like every other RPGs out there.

JRPGs do evolve but only within the confinements of the JRPG genre. The innovation comes in the form of a unique character growth system and battle system features. Now just try and tell me this has been the same in every JRPG?

It's like 2D/3D fighters, the foundations the same in all but gameplay unique.

Falsate

Aug 28 2009, 04:02 AM

There are two sides to games though, the Story structure and Gameplay structure. Arcade games like Galaga would be considered a gameplay structure because most of the events unravel through gameplay. There really is no back story to a classic game like that. This doesn't just apply to a game like that, there are other games besides arcade.

I'd expect all RPGs to take on the opposite side of that though, the Story structure. The game should consist more of the storyline and character development than most of it being told through pure gameplay. RPGs should introduce the world and the characters first, with the climax being the problem and solution towards the ending.

I just don't think XII captured this properly. Its as if they focused more on the gameplay structure rather than the story structure. Resembles a MMORPG for pete's sake. >.>

Acteir

Aug 28 2009, 04:09 AM

GalvanizA

Aug 28 2009, 04:26 AM

I did like Final Fantasy XII, in fact I just picked it up again at Gamestop last weekend, along with Final Fantasy VII Dirge of Cerberus, Final Fantasy X-2 and other classic PlayStation 2 games to relive the fun moments :)

Your first post? Welcome to the forum! ^_^

BTW @ Carbon, JRPGs are not mainly about story and your belief that they are is why you just couldn't click with XII.

Acteir

Aug 28 2009, 04:32 AM

Your first post? Welcome to the forum! ^_^

Thank you very much for the welcome :)
It's good to be here!

Hynad

Aug 28 2009, 04:40 AM

Your first post? Welcome to the forum! ^_^

BTW @ Carbon, JRPGs are not mainly about story and your belief that they are is why you just couldn't click with XII.

Because you say so, right?

Carbon made a good point there. An other among the lot that we threw at you.
And you're still only saying it's not about story because it's not.

STFU already.

ArgoXavier

Aug 28 2009, 05:05 AM

STFU already.

Yeah, I'm with Hynad. It is obvious no one is going to be swayed by this argument. You, not listening to the countless number of facts we throw your way, and us not listening to you because your just saying the same thing over and over.

This thread has become less about FF XII and more about GalvanusAs never ending quest to be the stupidest person on the forum. This thread has become pointless and shouldn't be posted in anymore.

Falsate

Aug 28 2009, 05:43 AM

Your first post? Welcome to the forum! ^_^

BTW @ Carbon, JRPGs are not mainly about story and your belief that they are is why you just couldn't click with XII.

Who said anything about JRPGS? I said RPGS.

Eighty88Eight

Aug 28 2009, 03:43 PM

FFVIII was shit?:ohmy: A beautiful, polished, golden turd maybe. But shit? Personally speaking, FFVIII is the best FF for the first 2 discs. I would call it shit once it starts darting around with the various contrived twists and Squall's silly love story, but the basic premise of a bunch of good looking young people living at a futuristic high-fantasy mercenary school and going around doing missions for money is brilliant... That shit would be a great TV show actually.

The only thing I would add to the sub-topic is this; it's still possible to love an RPG without caring a wit about the storyline. I feel that way about FFX, and Chrono Trigger is my favorite game, but the storyline is garbage. I understand that that isn't really the argument here, but you do kinda have to look at it in a case-by-case scenario, even though I hate taking the high road. Without getting too esoteric about it, I do feel like there is even more to an RPG than the story or the gameplay; theres also the indefinable something that just makes us find a game to be particularly remarkable.

For example, my favorite scene in FFX is at the beginning when you're running across that bridge in Zanarkand while everyone is waiting for the blitzball game to start, and the announcer is talking about how he ran away from home to hear Jecht play at a coffee shop. To me, that little moment endures in the mind more than any aspect of the gameplay or any of the various moronic sequences of sentimentality and banality throughout the story that people seem to love so much. But thats just moi.

Masamune.

Aug 28 2009, 04:33 PM

Oh yes. FFXII is one of my favourites of the series. The gameplay is rich and fluid, and the world itself is engaging with such thought and imagination behind it. The plot and characterization itself is also very understated. Vaan is much criticized, and it's true he was shoehorned into the plot for the Japanese demographic, but he still works well enough as an everyman.

Hynad

Aug 28 2009, 05:00 PM

The only thing I would add to the sub-topic is this; it's still possible to love an RPG without caring a wit about the storyline. I feel that way about FFX, and Chrono Trigger is my favorite game, but the storyline is garbage. I understand that that isn't really the argument here, but you do kinda have to look at it in a case-by-case scenario, even though I hate taking the high road. Without getting too esoteric about it, I do feel like there is even more to an RPG than the story or the gameplay; theres also the indefinable something that just makes us find a game to be particularly remarkable.

For example, my favorite scene in FFX is at the beginning when you're running across that bridge in Zanarkand while everyone is waiting for the blitzball game to start, and the announcer is talking about how he ran away from home to hear Jecht play at a coffee shop. To me, that little moment endures in the mind more than any aspect of the gameplay or any of the various moronic sequences of sentimentality and banality throughout the story that people seem to love so much. But thats just moi.

You're talking about the game's setting. This attention to detail is closely connected to the game's story and if you remove that, among everything else that is connected to or is part of the story, you're left with gameplay only, and Galvamoron thinks that you can enjoy a JRPG if you're basically just walking around getting into battles after battles with no connecting links to make you actually want to see how everything unfolds. Basically, he pretends that the story that connects the gameplay part together is not necessary to enjoy the game.

Surely, games like Suikoden, Final Fantasy IV and onward, Lost Odyssey, even Mass Effect, etc... could all do without their unimportant stories. It's easy to demonstrate how every pieces of gameplay in a game like Mass Effect are in there to SUPPORT the actual story and setting, not the other way around.

It's the same for JRPGs. The gameplay is put in to support the story the developers want to say, no matter how bad they've become over the last few years.

The genre started with a gameplay style that allowed for more character interaction and immersion, and as time went by, stories became more and more a focus of the games (as demonstrated by games like Suikoden and Final Fantasy VII). The current state of JRPGs is such now that if a game doesn't have a good story, you're left with a gameplay style that barely has anything to offer than other games before it offered already.

Yes, JRPGs are all about stories. Unlike Platformers and Driving games for example (and even in the case of platformers, stories are becoming more and more prevalent because of the apparently stagnating state of the genre).

GalvanizA

Aug 29 2009, 05:22 AM

Carbon made a good point there. An other among the lot that we threw at you.
And you're still only saying it's not about story because it's not.

But my point has yet to be proved wrong. Why should I add another point when you guys ain't even knocked down my first? You just need to realise you're wrong. If the game is prioritising story over gameplay then it's bad game design in the concept stage and no longer a video game but interactive movie; this is what happened to FFX.

Naunen

Aug 29 2009, 05:29 AM

My point has yet to be proved wrong. Why should I add more points when you guys ain't even knocked down my first? You guys just need to realise you're wrong. If the game is prioritising story over gameplay then it's bad game design already and no longer a video game but interactive movie.

----Says the guy who did this back then: http://www.finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4210

Falsate

Aug 29 2009, 05:42 AM

Amazing how people have been shaped, eh?

GalvanizA

Aug 29 2009, 05:47 AM

----Says the guy who did this back then: http://www.finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4210

My first post! :D

I had already seen XIII's gameplay before writing.

My ideal example is XII as Hiroyuki Itou already knew he didn't want random battles before the project even started and Yasumi Matsuno already knew he wanted to revolutionise FF main series gameplay before he even started on scenario. Gameplay prioritised over story.

Naunen

Aug 29 2009, 07:33 AM

My first post! :D

I had already seen XIII's gameplay before writing.

My ideal example is XII as Hiroyuki Itou already knew he didn't want random battles before the project even started and Yasumi Matsuno already knew he wanted to revolutionise FF main series gameplay before he even started on scenario. Gameplay prioritised over story.

----I typically believe that a role-playing game revolves around story. The story is written and the only thing to do is bring it to life. But it depends on how you bring it out. This is what I think an RPG is. If based off a legend, depending on how it's told, the story can be told as many times as possible without being the same thing over and over. Like the Legend of Zelda series (although it's Adventure, the story is about his adventures anyway).

In this case, you must mean the gameplay is more important than the story. The story can be great but if told poorly, it can be terrible. It's the equivalent of reading a book in monotone to people than to read it out with life. If I'm reading you right, this is what you mean. The gameplay is the life of a game with a grand story. Though if there's more story than playing it out, it may as well not have been a game. Is this what you mean?

Wandering Hands

Aug 29 2009, 07:55 AM

It's like talking to a brick wall.

Only, you get further with the wall.

Whiplash

Aug 29 2009, 08:06 AM

Is this thread going to get beyond the "story is important because of x, y, z", "no gameplay is, go read a book" back and forth anytime soon?

Sabin

Aug 29 2009, 01:31 PM

I don't even know why people still bother. This guy is one of the biggest trolls over at gamefaqs.

Hae

Aug 29 2009, 01:48 PM

I liked the dancing moogles in it.

Gd_Master16

Aug 29 2009, 06:11 PM

Final Fantasy XII was a great game. Compared to FPS games it had great characters and a great storyline... but when its compared to other final fantasy games i would say its my least favorite of them all... but that still doesnt mean its not good...

Thunder

Aug 29 2009, 06:22 PM

Compared to FPS games it had great characters and a great storyline...
That's what I call a comparsion!

Hitoshura

Aug 29 2009, 10:05 PM

Compared to FPS games it had great characters and a great storyline.

Someone hasn't played Deus Ex :wtf:

Hynad

Aug 29 2009, 10:51 PM

There's always an exception to a rule. :wtf:

GalvanizA

Aug 29 2009, 11:21 PM

Is this thread going to get beyond the "story is important because of x, y, z", "no gameplay is, go read a book" back and forth anytime soon?

IMO, it's one of the most important questions in modern RPG game design. The answer is different depending on who you ask and I hope this thread keeps going till one side proves their belief is right.

And @ Naunen, you're on my path; you can have a good story in a book but if grammar and spelling is shit it will fail.

Whiplash

Aug 30 2009, 04:52 AM

But one side is never going to get the other to accept they're right. In 8 pages you've just gone around and around and around because one side IS right and the other refuses to accept it. I encourage all those that are on the right side to just walk away and let the posts speak for themselves. It's obvious for anyone reading this thread who won the argument.

GalvanizA

Aug 31 2009, 02:34 AM

It's obvious for anyone reading this thread who won the argument.

It's not obvious. If it was then either myself or the others are in denial.

I've yet to read a point to waver my belief. If people think story is more important than gameplay in a RPG then hit me with the proof so that I may believe. Otherwise the difference between the story focused X and gameplay focused XII speaks for itself.

RPGs are not mainly about story, you guys just play RPGs mainly for the story.

Whiplash

Aug 31 2009, 02:52 AM

If it was then either myself or the others are in denial.

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

GalvanizA

Aug 31 2009, 03:20 AM

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

I'm gonna be modest and say that both sides are in denial. I know I'm right but they know they're right also.

I'm a gameplay guy when it comes to JRPGs and XII and DQVIII being my fave PS2 JRPGs clearly shows that. The only reason I want XIII is because it will have playable AC battles. Fuck the story, just give me that playable Battle in the Forgotten City and Bahamut Sin fight. That's the part of XIII that I will love.

Eighty88Eight

Aug 31 2009, 06:35 PM

You people are engaging in a circular "chicken or the egg" debate with no end in sight. Perhaps an answer can reveal itself in the form of a question: If FFXII were to be edited of its cutscenes, would it still be an RPG? The answer is self evident, unless of course you all qualify "setting" as "story", then in which case it is a chicken or the egg argument. Regardless of whichever came first, the fact is neither can exist without the other.

GalvanizA

Aug 31 2009, 11:45 PM

If FFXII were to be edited of its cutscenes, would it still be an RPG?

It would still be a RPG as it has RPG game design as a foundation such as leveling, items and exploration.

I mean look at Monster Hunter! The game has no story and yet Capcom sell it as an Action RPG and it's huge in Japan. It's the gameplay that defines a video game genre and therefore even without story a game can still qualify to be a RPG as long as it's using RPG game design.

Lebreau

Sep 01 2009, 12:07 AM

I liked FFXII. I thought it was pretty fun, and I liked the battle system. I do think the characters had a lack of closeness unlike most final fantasies.

hume57

Sep 01 2009, 08:59 AM

i love ffxii!
though, the end was eh...

GalvanizA

Sep 01 2009, 10:47 PM

Seeing as my opposition have left the debate they must have realised they were wrong.

It's as I've said, story is a big part of a RPG but is not secondary to gameplay, both in design and execution. You guys play RPGs mainly for the story but that does not mean they are the most important part of the genre. In every video game genre gameplay should be top priority.

Only in an interactive movie does story take priority over gameplay; that must be the type of interactive entertainment you guys are after.

Hitoshura

Sep 01 2009, 10:53 PM

Seeing as my opposition have left the debate they must have realised they were wrong.

LOL, nobody stopped debating because they knew they were wrong, its because talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

I still go by my claim that RPG's are primarily about the story.

GalvanizA

Sep 01 2009, 11:12 PM

I still go by my claim that RPG's are primarily about the story.

Yet you don't have a strong enough point to hit me with to prove it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying story is not important in a RPG. The problem I have is that you guys believe that it's more important than gameplay. That's the part of your logic that's fucked up.

Hitoshura

Sep 01 2009, 11:25 PM

Yet you don't have a strong enough point to hit me with to prove it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying story is not important in a RPG. The problem I have is that you guys believe that it's more important than gameplay. That's the part of your logic that's fucked up.

Read some of my earlier posts. If I wanted gameplay, I'd be playing an action game. When I'm playing RPG's, I expect a story to be told.

GalvanizA

Sep 01 2009, 11:38 PM

If I wanted gameplay, I'd be playing an action game. When I'm playing RPG's, I expect a story to be told.

That doesn't mean story is more important than gameplay in a RPG. To yourself and other gamers it is but from a game designer perspective it isn't; it's important but not more than gameplay.

How Monster Hunter is called a RPG by Capcom despite having no story must greatly confuse you.

Hynad

Sep 01 2009, 11:42 PM

Most video games of that category aren't even RPGs (as in: ROLE Playing Games) to begin with.

No wonder why you're so confused about the most important parts of that kind of game.

Now, shut the fuck up, stupid piece of shit.

Falsate

Sep 02 2009, 12:13 AM

Last time I recalled, "ROLE" playing means to view or put yourself in a story through another object's perspective.

Hynad

Sep 02 2009, 12:30 AM

Like in Oblivion, Fallout and maybe Mass Effect to some extent.

Calling games like Final Fantasy, Tales of, Dragon Quest, Suikoden, etc, is a misnomer. The games don't let you play the role of any characters. You have control over skill progression, not story or event progression.

It can't be a role playing game is you're only handling the stat progression of an entire party.

Video game RPGs are in fact pretty rare when you think about what this genre is really about.

GalvanizA

Sep 02 2009, 12:43 AM

Video game RPGs are in fact pretty rare when you think about what this genre is really about.

Think about what you're typing. The ability to decide the direction of a story through your choices and actions is interactivity and that's linked to gameplay.

Hynad

Sep 02 2009, 03:19 AM

Of course there's interactivity. It's a videogame.

You may feel like I don't think about what I type, but you certainly don't read what I type.

I basically labeled the games you speak of as something other than RPGs.

My point still stand that this type of game (whatever you call it) still revolve around a gameplay that supports the games' stories.

Your problem is that you speak as if we say that gameplay isn't important because the Story is what matters most in games like FF, Suikoden, Lost Odyssey, etc...

They're still videogames, and they're still interactive stories.

And get your facts straight. Monster Hunter is labeled as an Action Adventure game on its official site. ;)

http://www.capcom.com/monster/

In any case, you didn't bring any strong point to defend your stance. You're basically just saying that what we think is fucked.

Here is ratio to demonstrate what I think (Because you're obviously too retarded to make it up yourself):

Most important thing: 45% story.
Second most important thing: 40% Music
Other (Music, graphics, etc...): 15%

A game like Mass Effect wouldn't have had the same impact on gamers if it didn't take such a cinematic approch to interactivity. This cinematic approach is part of what we call a storytelling method.

Whiplash

Sep 02 2009, 08:59 AM

http://www.masonicinfo.com/images/BeatDeadHorse.gif

I've asked nicely, several posts and the odd warning later I'm now going to ask not nicely. Knock the argument off. This time I only warned the person who started it again, but after this ANYONE who responds with a continuation of this damn, off-topic argument will be warned for spamming and the thread will be closed. Now all of you involved go off and find something else to do, some people in this thread want to talk about whether they like XII or not, not whether gameplay or story is more important in RPGs generally. If upon a few minutes of quiet reflection, you still think the best thing you can do with your time on the forum is go around and around in circles arguing over the opinions and preferences of strangers, start a thread in General Gaming.

Penelo

Sep 03 2009, 12:15 AM

It wasn't my favorite Final Fantasy (surprisingly enough, considering my username here) but it's in my top 5. I enjoyed the battle system and while the characters could have been a bit more developed, I thought overall it was a really good game.

GalvanizA

Sep 03 2009, 12:50 AM

The poll results show that those that disliked XII are far more vocal than those that liked it. That's good to know and means that despite how different it was in gameplay to past main series FF games, people adapted to the changes.

It's main flaw I'm getting from the replies is the lack of a deep story and significant character development. Hopefully this will be improved in the next game by the XII team.

Gd_Master16

Sep 03 2009, 02:59 AM

GalvanizA

Sep 03 2009, 03:32 AM

Its pretty obvious that story is more important if FF13 came out and there was no gameplay and it was just a big movie id probably still like it, but if it came out and there was no story and just exploring and battling it would suck.

I'd still love XIII with no story as the battle system looks epic.

To each his own, though. You're slightly late to the debate, BTW. We are now staying on-topic.

Falsate

Sep 03 2009, 06:13 AM

I won't say the game is repulsive because you'll end up raping it for awhile. I must admit, the battle system was a new turn to the FF series. Every FF has it's own battle system (for the most part), so there you have it.

In addition, I still wish the characters were closer and not so far apart. Vaan is a prime example of having nearly no relevance in the game.

hume57

Sep 05 2009, 04:02 AM

ashe should have been the main protagonist... it's mostly her story after all. Vaan was just there for the ride...

maybe, just maybe, it were better if it were in basch's or balthier's view.

Thunder

Sep 05 2009, 01:50 PM

ashe should have been the main protagonist... it's mostly her story after all. Vaan was just there for the ride...

maybe, just maybe, it were better if it were in basch's or balthier's view.
Definitely.
Ashe IS the character whose the story is about.
It's her who got an arranged marrigae for the sake of her kingdom. It's her husban who died tryng to save her father. It's her who plays dead, secretly leading the resistence. It's her who have to choose to refuse Occurias power for I don't remeber what exact purpose.
It's all about her really.

Light Caelum

Sep 13 2009, 06:48 PM

I liked playing it actually. The battle system me likes because you can move all around and not waiting in line to get hitted (?) though not what I expected can't say it was that bad to play imo. Specially the main lady wasn't a normal lady from the games i played (X, X-2, VIII, IX) she had a stronger personality (?) . What I didn't like was the upgrade system, don't know if it was used b4.

Big Boss

Sep 13 2009, 07:44 PM

I enjoyed playing it, if I hadn't, I wouldn't have spent over 100 hours in my first playthrough. Story-wise, it wasn't bad, in my opinion the story was more focused on the events rather than the characters themselves. Which is why some people probably didn't like the story.

I wasn't too crazy about the license board, but only because you had the buy the magicks as well.

R. Daneel Olivaw

Sep 13 2009, 11:14 PM

FFXII was good. Lots of people may not have liked the events > Individuals approach the storyline took, but I rather much enjoyed it. It was a refreshing changes of pace from intense bouts of character development and interpersonal drama that occurs between the characters of many other (both FF and non-FF) games.
I wasn't a fan of the battle system particularly though because of the lack of interaction, you could win most battles just by walking up to an enemy and dropping the controller. It was only ever much fun when you go through specifically avoiding battles to stay low levelled and add a bit of difficulty to the game.