FFXIII and the FFVII remake rumors: How they relate?

[Milyc]

After so much talk about the possible FFVII remake, everyone has an own opinion of whether or not it would be a good idea. I am against it, and since I use many FFXIII theories in my explaining, I thought it would be interesting if we discussed it here as well.

Much talk have already been focused on how FFXIII setting reminds us of that of FFVII. With Cocoon being compared to Midgar, Team Nora to Avalanche, Lightining being a "female version of Cloud", the return of a black character for an important role, the presence of an omnipotent organization as a threat and more, it is no secret for most that FFXIII is shaping up to be a FFVII spiritual successor.

However, what I'd like to point here are the gameplay aspects that could render FFXIII as said successor, and then leave little point for a FFVII remake.

FFVII wouldn't fit well in modern technology without losing much of what made it what it is. Imagine sequences like much of the Shinra Building exploration (such as collecting coupons), the snow sliding, the submarine battle, or the dolphin timed jump. It just wouldn't fit well for a PS3/ X360 game since its mechanics were clearly appropriated for old technologies.

Could it be entirely redone now? Maybe. But would it catch the same feeling and do the same thing the original did for the RPG genre? No way. Plenty of money which should be spent somewhere else. I think SE is considering FFXIII to be true FFVII remake, in the sense for it to be its spiritual successor. How? By reimplementing innovative mechanics and a constant outstanding gameplay BY ITS OWN WAY, which adapts to today's standard.

If so, they are entirely correct, and I have faith they can pull it out again. And since Nomura already stated this would be the new FFVII (saying "the series remained the same after FFVII, but it is about to change again), what with the different gameplay styles for both Pulse and Cocoon, the redesigned, cinematic battle system, the now more interactive cut-scenes (both diminishing the gap between gameplay and story, toward a more cohesive game as a whole), and the new usage of summons as vehicles, they are well on their way.

If it would be for the PSP, with merely improved graphics and voices, I am in for it. But otherwise, no way. What we need is another game like FFVII, to refuel the RPG market and revitalize the genre once more (not that FFXII didn't, at least in some senses). But FFVII itself again? Why? The game is already perfect the way it is. If we want to see its world and characters in decent technology, there is AC and the entire compilation.

Let's just get over it, and have faith in FFXIII. So it may be the true FFVII remake.

So, what are your thoughts? How do you see this relation of FFXIII and FFVII remake? What are the impressions that Nomura's comment on "FFXIII changing the series once more" leave on you?
http://www.ff-xiii.net/boards/images2/misc/progress.gif

[Sanji]

They're not related

[Lord Of Dumbasses]

Well fuck the rest! Finally someone thinks like me! After all, XIII is the TRUE VII remake.

[Moklin]

I completly agree. I think you just said in a splendid way what most of users here think about this subject. Gongrats. You changed the way i see ff13 now.
And please SE, dont make a ffvii remake for ps3/360.
I dont agree at ffvii changed the series. ffvi did.

[Milyc]

I will be glad if I could bring a productive discussion here. Thanks.

Indeed I find this subject very interesting, and it would be nice to see what else people have to say.

Along with all that, the expectations for the game keep increasing.

[Shiranui Reborn]

If so, they are entirely correct, and I have faith they can pull it out again. And since Nomura already stated this would be the new FFVII (saying "the series remained the same after FFVII, but it is about to change again), what with the different gameplay styles for both Pulse and Cocoon, the redesigned, cinematic battle system, the now more interactive cut-scenes (both diminishing the gap between gameplay and story, toward a more cohesive game as a whole), and the new usage of summons as vehicles, they are well on their way.

this is why i like video games

[Sweet Shot Usopp]

This game does seem highly evolved. Way different from the others. It's hard for me to even imagine what they really even advertised in the past. This game brings a lot to the forefront that's new to the series. Same goes for it's sister titles.

[Espressivo]

"But FFVII itself again? Why? The game is already perfect the way it is. If we want to see its world and characters in decent technology, there is AC and the entire compilation.

Let's just get over it, and have faith in FFXIII. So it may be the true FFVII remake."


BEST THING SAID IN A LONG TIME.

[Saki Liu]

I don't see it. I don't see the similarities.

[chaosblade77]

FFXIII definitely draws a lot of things from FFVII. It's hard to ignore the similarities.

However, I'm not sure I understand the point you're trying to make. It basically seems to come down to "FFVII is outdated, FFXIII is not, and since it pulls from FFVII it becomes the remake, making a literal remake unnecessary."

If SquareEnix were to remake FFVII it's very unlikely it would be an attempt to evolve the series, unlike XIII. I'm sure there would be quite a few differences from the original game in order to make it meet today's standards, but that's it. Essentially, the fact that aspects of FFVII relied on dated technology, different expectations and more simple gameplay elements make no difference when it comes to a remake. They wouldn't treat it any differently than they have the FFIII and IV remakes.

Also, I find it pretty hard to believe anybody would believe SquareEnix will NOT remake FFVII, given it's popularity. It's like free money, the only question is when, and for what console. Even if it doesn't live up to expectations, the name alone will sell it.


I don't think there is any relation at all between FFXIII and a remake even though there is likely a relation to FFVII itself. XIII is probably drawing from VII because it's far and away the most popular game in the series, even if it's not necessarily the best. With the genre on the decline, they have to do something that will catch people's interest, and emulating aspects of the most popular game in the series without directly copying it is one way to do that. They haven't even had to say anything for people to start noticing similarities, so it essentially becomes viral advertisement. People who liked FFVII who hear or read about that will become interested, even if it's subconsciously.

[StrangeCat]

impossible everyone working on FFXIII projects would be the devs working on FFVII remake. This is the reason it never happened. All those damn FFXIII games would have to be completed to free up the teams(so they say)
I guess they are related because of that.

[The Awaking]

Thank god finally somebody said something about this FF 7 and FF 13 equation. Its been talked about through-out the past years and i think about it everyday. I've been wanting to say that for the longest, but I can't find no one to talk too about the comparision, except on this site. I say forget the haters and lets just say that this is a spiritual remake of FF 7 and if not, it's DAMN near the closest one...hands down.

[Icysparks2009]

Interesting connections. I definitely agree with you - the time SE spends making a FF VII remake is the time they can spend bringing something new to the series. Crisis Core is an excellent example of this - I loved every minute of it. It gave everything I could hope for in a FF VII remake, while presenting a brand new story (under a different protagonist).

[Cassette Assassin]

Well, Square isn't exactly the most original company around, and a lot things in their games seem similar to me, though this whole 'FFXIII is related to FFVII' discussion... I don't know. They DO seem alike (with the story and a few characters), I'm not sure if it was intentional or not, but I'm hoping they're not using FFXIII as a next-gen replacement for FFVII to try and please fans or whatever.

I'm hoping they'll try and do something new-ish and make it seem like a completely new game, not FFVII's "remake" of sorts.

[RohanValor]

Come to think of it, it does make sense. They based Lightnings facial looks on Cloud (still dont know why) they brought up a black dude once again after VII, Seria is somewhat like Aerith i guess. and Cocoon does seem to relate to that of Midgar. I wonder if they wanted this game to be like VII only different or it was out of huge coinsidence

[Pain Clone]

I think ur over thinking this, it would be similar at most. Hopfully not too similar.

[LOL]

Yes they do have obvious similarities as stated above but FFXIII shouldn't be a modern copy of FFVII.

[Milyc]

It basically seems to come down to "FFVII is outdated, FFXIII is not, and since it pulls from FFVII it becomes the remake, making a literal remake unnecessary."
It basically seems to come down to "FFVII is outdated, FFXIII is not, and since it pulls from FFVII it becomes the remake, making a literal remake unnecessary."


That is not entirely off-topic if taken in your own words. FFVII remake is not needed both because the original own gameplay (which relied in dated technology) and because FFXIII can fill the gap in terms of impact and innovation. Do you want a new FFVII? Let it also be a new FF.

Interesting connections. I definitely agree with you - the time SE spends making a FF VII remake is the time they can spend bringing something new to the series. Crisis Core is an excellent example of this - I loved every minute of it. It gave everything I could hope for in a FF VII remake, while presenting a brand new story (under a different protagonist).

My thoughts exactly, except forthe Crisis Core part, which I haven't played yet.

I'm hoping they'll try and do something new-ish and make it seem like a completely new game, not FFVII's "remake" of sorts.

So do I.

I didn't mention, neither I want to, that FFXIII would just recycle FFVII. What I meant and hope is that XIII could manage to bring the same impact and innovations, maybe especially market-wise. The JRPG genre is not doing so well on this gen, and FFXIII could work wonders to get it back on its feet. I didn't mention, neither I want to, that FFXIII would just recycle FFVII. What I meant and hope is that XIII could manage to bring the same impact and innovations, maybe especially market-wise. The JRPG genre is not doing so well on this gen, and FFXIII could work wonders to get it back on its feet.


Come to think of it, it does make sense. They based Lightnings facial looks on Cloud (still dont know why) they brought up a black dude once again after VII, Seria is somewhat like Aerith i guess. and Cocoon does seem to relate to that of Midgar. I wonder if they wanted this game to be like VII only different or it was out of huge coinsidence


Seria? You mean Vanille?

[Hynad]

I highly doubt we'll see a struggle to (literally) save the planet in FF XIII (nothing points at this in any case). So there goes your "FFXIII is FF VII remake" theory.

[Milyc]

You didn't get my point at all, did you?

[Moklin]

I highly doubt we'll see a struggle to (literally) save the planet in FF XIII (nothing points at this in any case). So there goes your "FFXIII is FF VII remake" theory.

Its not so hard to understand. FFXIII wont have the same main story than ff13. It will just recycle some ideas from ff7. Like, a spiritual sequel.

[Oldrich]

FFXIII wont have the same main story than ff13.

Yeah.. Cool.. Well..


But I think that u r right about this whole FF VII remake thing.. But it would be interesting to see how would FF VII turn to new consoles.. But maybe I wouldn't buy the game..

[Hynad]

Its not so hard to understand. FFXIII wont have the same main story than ff13. It will just recycle some ideas from ff7. Like, a spiritual sequel.


You mean, like ALL the games from the series recycle ideas from their predecessors? As in, FF XIII will be a remake of FF II? :wtf:

Seriously, you're all not making any sense.

[bringsan90]

uhhhh......no.

don't see it and so what about technologies? Fina Fantasy IV,VI,VIII, and X have some too.

[Hynad]

Yeah, because technology is the only idea that can possibly be passed from one game to an other... :wtf:

[iv4nsbc]

I do agree, but have something to say ... FVII was a great profit for SE, so some aspects have proved themselves and received a special atention from the developers ... And were incorporated on the other FF games ...

Since I do agree that SE isn't one of the MOST original gaming house (but they have their moments), I understand one thing, like all companies, they seek profit ... So they take some aspects that worked well on previous games, give them a new shape, shake with some new stuff and voilá, a new game arrives ...

The inicial thoughts of the topic go around the innovation, the hope that FFXIII become a paradigm-breaker like VII was at it's time ... But the obvious similarities don't let me think so ...

If I'd had a better english, i could go further into my thoughts ... sorry ...

[Naunen]

I do agree, but have something to say ... FVIII was a great profit for SE

----FFVIII?

For all we know, this is probably quite like how Shadow of the Colossus came from the concept of a sequel for Ico. Plus, I'd rather not take things seriously after seeing the word "rumors" in the title.

[Hynad]

But the obvious similarities don't let me think so

I wonder what obvious similarities you're talking about.

Lightning was designed after Cloud... Yet doesn't look a bit like him. There's 2 level of society (Cocoon and Pulse) like Midgar and it's slums, yet in Midgar, people living in the slums weren't people who got deported. Lifestream? Ancients? If you mention the Rebel group, then FF XIII is more similar to FF VI than VII.

[StrangeCat]

yea there is black dude in FFVII so of course there related! Look a black dude in FFXIII!! I am dude playing a dude who is playing that other dude! you know were related FFVII and everything had a black dude so yea...*(rolls eyes)*

[jenovasilver]

:sigh:

No, they're not the same....not in the slightest. Not even in the smallest magical sense are they the same.

As a ardent and I mean ARDENT VII fan, I would prefer if SE just made a true blue bloody remake of the game. Here's the set up.

1-SE makes remake, bundles it with release of the original FFVII
2-SE makes it multiplatform (for fanboys release it on the PS3-only)
3-Everybody happy now
4-PROFIT
5-Leaves FFVII alone and focuses all it's newly required monies on new FFs and IPs
6-MOAR PROFIT
7-World Ends

There, that's it...the perfect ending.

Now, don't get me wrong, believe me. But XIII if anything is going try to invoke the 'spirit' of VII more then anything. It's the same 'spirit' that SE has been trying to capture since the bloody game came out, VII was a revolutionary game (see #4 and #6) and frankly, SE can't escape it no matter what.

XIII will shine on its own merits, whatever they may be...the problem with SE is that they could sabotage it by appeasing the VII fans by putting little nods in the game. Those little nods become theories, theories become wishes then debates on forums then....well...you get the idea.

But that's it....there's no real connection between the two other then the demo is coming bundled with the AC-C sparkle fairy edition.

[Aurelia]

There is no relation. Go home. Fap to the porn. Something. Just stop correlating FFVII with FFXIII.

[Hynad]

It's the same 'spirit' that SE has been trying to capture since the bloody game came out

I hope here that you're only referring to the FF VII compilation...

[jenovasilver]

I hope here that you're only referring to the FF VII compilation...


No, I'm not..I'll try to explain myself a little clearer LOL!

The compilation itself was a big ole thanks/cash machine from SE to the FFVII/FF fans, whether we wanted it or not. The 'spirit' that I'm referring to is the genre redefying/ground breaking/mad moneys for SE and Sony-ness of FFVII.

That particular FF brought millions of people (many who weren't even in RPGs) into the FF universe and for more or less 'saved' the rpg-genre; it wasn't the bestest game ever but it certainly breathed new life into the genre which at the time was the bottom tier of the gaming relevance tree unless it was a Zelda game..

For years after VII, SE has made significant changes in each new FF with XII being their most drastic change.

Now we're in current gen, with only four rpgs that are worth noting (LO, ME, Fallout3 and Fable2) none of those are SE rpgs.

For the most part the SE rpgs on the current gen have been less then stellar, the Japanese gaming market that once was held in high (some would say Godly) regard seems to be spinning its wheels (USA is no better but almost any gamer can see that there's been a level of distaste toward Japanese games especially JRPGs growing from the game reviewers/blogs/sites.).

Everyone and thier mommas are waiting with bated breath for XIII, some are eager while others are ready to rip it to shreds. The 'spirit' of VII isn't necessarily the image and characters, it's also refers to a 'savior cash cow' that VII represented and still represents for people. If anything, SE wants XIII to do what VII did 12 years ago and make them 'viable' in the eyes of gamers and critics alike again, which is exactly what they need after three lackluster current gen games.

That's the 'spirit' I'm talking about. Of course, it's simply my observation.

[Hynad]

Basically, those are nothing more than stuff taken from your own ass. That's what I thought at first, that's what you just confirmed.


FF VII doesn't have anything to do with the way that S-E wants to make games that sell (meh).

Back then, FF VII wasn't in the slightest a "savior cash cow", it was the next title in the series and nothing else. Squaresoft was not in any kind of financial troubles so they didn't need a "savior" kind of game at all. The RPG scene was also quite healthy and was growing in popularity with every releases from all third parties.



If anything, SE wants XIII to do what VII did 12 years ago and make them 'viable' in the eyes of gamers and critics alike again, which is exactly what they need after three lackluster current gen games.You mean, they want FF XIII to perform just as well as any other titles in the main series, as in stellar critics and reception? WOAH! I mean, your name is Captain Obvious, right?

I wonder what planet you live on. As far as I see, you seem to see Squaresoft and FF VII as godly figures.

[LOL]

There is no relation. Go home. Fap to the porn. Something. Just stop correlating FFVII with FFXIII.


Indeed. Screw the similarities, its like saying FFXII is like FFXIII because it has a black guy or FFX is like FFVII because both have useless male characters in them that are love interests tothe main male character. Don's most FF follow the idea of rebeling against an outside force the liek planet or government. In that case they all should be the same. I see where the comparisons are coming form though whne it comes to FFVIII and FFXIII but they won;t be the same game. All this useless arguing on two different games gives me a headache.>_< Porn however, is sounding good right now.:D

[jenovasilver]

Basically, those are nothing more than stuff taken from your own ass. That's what I thought at first, that's what you just confirmed.

I believe everyone is taking things out of their own ass on a forum, I can only tell you what I observed over the years of playing RPGs. Perhaps I should've worded it clearly, but these are my feelings and thoughts on the matter, nothing more.


FF VII doesn't have anything to do with the way that S-E wants to make games that sell (meh).

Back then, FF VII wasn't in the slightest a "savior cash cow", it was the next title in the series and nothing else. Squaresoft was not in any kind of financial troubles so they didn't need a "savior" kind of game at all. The RPG scene was also quite healthy and was growing in popularity with every releases from all third parties.

That's also very true, none of us are in the room when SE makes the shots so no one knows what goes into their heads when they release titles. But you can't deny the impact VII had or still has on the company, much like Mario is for Ninty or Halo has on Xbox. SE for all intensive purposes is a company, companies by in large likes money and VII has and continues to make them money as evident in the success of the Compilation so far.


You mean, they want FF XIII to perform just as well as any other titles in the main series, as in stellar critics and reception? WOAH! I mean, your name is Captain Obvious, right?

I wonder what planet you live on. As far as I see, you seem to see Squaresoft and FF VII as godly figures.


LOL! No, I would believe they would want it to sell better...far more then their last FF which XIII is almost guarnteed to do now that it's multiplatform. No company wants their game to just make back what they but into a product, they want it to exceed it in every way possible as well as charm the critics. This game has been in production for damn near 5 years, there's alot of money/jobs are riding on the success of this game.

I never said SE was a god company or VII as the end all to be all, however VII as a game did in my opinion to alot of things for the gaming industry, SE and Sony alike. As I said, it wasn't the best game ever made but it was certainly one of the best, whether you think or don't think is purely opinion based. Just like mine are.

I have no stock in the company to defend it, merely a gamer on a forum like yourself who wants a good game at the end of day. No one's right or wrong here.

[Espressivo]

There is no relation. Go home. Fap to the porn. Something. Just stop correlating FFVII with FFXIII.

Well said.

"Oh look I see similarities between 2 games by the same company. WOOOOOOOW."

Get over it.

[BlizzarddeX]

I believe everyone is taking things out of their own ass on a forum, I can only tell you what I observed over the years of playing RPGs. Perhaps I should've worded it clearly, but these are my feelings and thoughts on the matter, nothing more.




That's also very true, none of us are in the room when SE makes the shots so no one knows what goes into their heads when they release titles. But you can't deny the impact VII had or still has on the company, much like Mario is for Ninty or Halo has on Xbox. SE for all intensive purposes is a company, companies by in large likes money and VII has and continues to make them money as evident in the success of the Compilation so far.





LOL! No, I would believe they would want it to sell better...far more then their last FF which XIII is almost guarnteed to do now that it's multiplatform. No company wants their game to just make back what they but into a product, they want it to exceed it in every way possible as well as charm the critics. This game has been in production for damn near 5 years, there's alot of money/jobs are riding on the success of this game.

I never said SE was a god company or VII as the end all to be all, however VII as a game did in my opinion to alot of things for the gaming industry, SE and Sony alike. As I said, it wasn't the best game ever made but it was certainly one of the best, whether you think or don't think is purely opinion based. Just like mine are.

I have no stock in the company to defend it, merely a gamer on a forum like yourself who wants a good game at the end of day. No one's right or wrong here.

Please clam down and in the end forget the similarities and differences.

A twin can be born but their character, taste and goal are different. So FF13 might be or say if it was an identical twin of FF7, it would feel different in the end. If we gamers get the same Repetitive feeling that its just the same then we have somthing to worry about (that is after we play the game).

Its been 9 years and the only game that comes to my mind, and the first game i played, that FF13 is following suit to is FF9 in the sense it is taking somethings from every Final Fantasy and adding news things in turn. FF9 did the same thing since i get the feeling every ~10 years Square Enix (Square Soft before) likes to remind the people the spirit of Final Fantasy, and not FF7. FF7 is only one game whereas Final Fantasy game as a whole is what makes it great.

So please forget about FF7 since FF4 is the Don of all final fantasy games since it has the best story, character and everything about it except it was not 3D with flashy graphic. Critces says it so that it was a true master precie and a first for Final Fantasy game.

FF7 does not rule Final Fantasy as a whole.

FF1 -NES system
FF4 -Super NES system
FF7 -PS1
FF10 -PS2
FF13 -PS3 and Xbox 360 (in the process)


So every final fantasy game that they release at the start of the console generation is great and gets critical review. For Microsoft to do what they did is a big thing since Final Fantasy has always been system sellers except Sony wise to not let SE release FF13 in the Japanis Market for Xbox 360.

Yes, Sony owns part of Square Enix!!!

[Milyc]

There are similarities between both games, despite what flamers with no own opinions have to troll about.

A twin can be born but their character, taste and goal are different. So FF13 might be or say if it was an identical twin of FF7, it would feel different in the end.

Do agree. Despite some premisses and potential market influences both seem to share, I can picture they ending up quite differently. This has been mentioned before.

[~azure.requiem]

~ they're not related in any way. know why?? THEY ACTUALLY RELEASED INFO ON FFXIII.

[The_Steve]

Any similarities between the two are coincidental (one major city, an important black character, WOW!!! [sarcasm]).

Sure, some things in FFVII would be weird, but they can be changed without ruining the basis of FFVII switch Cloud conning a kid out of a snow board for him finding one, or take it out completely and skip that part, the whole Don Corneo scenario could easily be optional (do it or just bust in to the place).

Anything that doesn't work could be removed without harming the essence of the game. Make environments larger to have real time battles and more exploration. Separate the map into different sectors to explore. FFVII COULD work on PS3, it just has to be slightly altered. Fanboys will hate the changes but they can go die alone.

Now, please excuse me while I read all the hatemail they have just inevitably sent me.

[GalvanizA]

Man, in regards to the OP I called the shit AGES ago!

FFVI = FFXII
FFVII = FFXIII

[Darkerthan_BLACK]

The mysterious girl looks like female sephiroth too. Next-gen feminine cloud vs sephiroth. yay!.

[Aurelia]

The mysterious girl looks like female sephiroth too. Next-gen feminine cloud vs sephiroth. yay!.

YAY LESBIANS~