Right and wrong:Morality etc

[Misschoco]

ffs im athiest so try not to interject anything too much about God for once But why do we decide that some things are good and some are bad.As in why do we all universally assume that something is 'Good' Where did these principles develop from.I may be going of topic.But what im trying to say is where to right and wrong come from?.
Morality could come from 3 things.

1.From us:Morality comes from how we reflect or feel about things.We make things wrong or right by approving or disapproving of things according to our feelings.

2.God :cathryn: If God disproves of something we all go to Hell.

3.Things are right and wrong anyway.

Discuss.

[Esagan]

ffs im athiest so try not to interject anything too much about God for once But why do we decide that some things are good and some are bad.As in why do we all universally assume that something is 'Good' Where did these principles develop from.I may be going of topic.But what im trying to say is where to right and wrong come from?.
Morality could come from 3 things.

1.From us:Morality comes from how we reflect or feel about things.We make things wrong or right by approving or disapproving of things according to our feelings.

2.God :cathryn: If God disproves of something we all go to Hell.

3.Things are right and wrong anyway.

Discuss.

ffs im athiest

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/JesusBlewMeOnce/Desi.jpg

Awesome way to open a thread.

Morales are something which grow with society, and morales are not universal.

[Purple]

True that. What maybe immoral to you might be totally fine with me and vice versa.

I believe it has something to do with how you are raised as well.

[Rhiannon]

..........

I'm atheist as well. Funny how one of my life rules originates from Christianity. "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."

Like you said, it revolves around feeling. If it's feel good or "right" for me to do, then fine. Then again, this could totally backfire because, for example, if a phyco killer gets enjoyment and fulfillment from taking others lives, what stops him from taking mine? and then, if he follows that "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you" thing, then is it ok if I take his?

It's way twisted there, so I guess we're back to 0. What is really wrong or right?

..........

[7 of Hope]

I think some of the basic morals were laid down way back when. Like killing, we have been raised to believe killing is wrong. Most of us accept that and follow that rule. That's the way its been for a long time.

Other things we may just be born with. Like you just know in your gut that something is wrong. Once again, most of us have basic rules we are born with. Others aren't.

Some people think something that most of us believe is wrong, is right. It might be the way they are raised. Or it could just be in their DNA, or they could just have a different mind then us.

When you come down to it, there a numerous factors to consider. I think it just comes down to a individual perspective because every person is different.

[Sabin]

I would say it all depends on the soceity you live in.

In some places, beating your woman is okay.
In some places, chopping the arm of a thief is okay.
In some places, death penalty is okay.

It has to do with many factors. Culture, religion, and many other things.
You are an atheist and I trust in God. Yet there are things that we would both agree on, and other things that would make us argue. I can't tell you that you're wrong and vice versa.

Some moral issues are probably there for us to have better lives. Like knowing that you should not kill, steal and many other things. I can't say I've ever thought much about this, because in the end morality is something very personal and each individual has his view on it.

[Esagan]

..........

I'm atheist as well. Funny how one of my life rules originates from Christianity. "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."

Like you said, it revolves around feeling. If it's feel good or "right" for me to do, then fine. Then again, this could totally backfire because, for example, if a phyco killer gets enjoyment and fulfillment from taking others lives, what stops him from taking mine? and then, if he follows that "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you" thing, then is it ok if I take his?

It's way twisted there, so I guess we're back to 0. What is really wrong or right?

..........


If a psycho killer came into my house I'd put my sword through his face. It's a bit of a ridiculous situation to refer that to anyway isn't it? You really think a Psycho killer would really listen to "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."? Cmon :aldo:

If you really want one to keep your morales straight, then go the old, "two eyes for an eye" one. That way, if someone annoys you, can can fuck them up twice as bad back, and they won't do it again ^^.

Sound immoral? Not really :aldo:

If no one does anything to me, then I just treat people nicely (irl lol). However if someone does something pretty major against me (tries to hit me etc), then I won't sit back, give them a kiss and forgive them.

You can't go round being a saint nowadays so following christian quotes isn't gonna get you very far since most can't be applied to the fucked up, sadistic, violence filled society in what's supposed to be a peaceful civilisation. :wub:

[Saki Liu]

Most of it is just common sense. I mean you wont just go out and kill someone. Pretty sure everyone knows thats wrong, but I do agree with you on some things in certain religions (including mine). I just dont get why people should go to hell if they do something wrong like having sex before getting married. We're all human for goodness sake.

[Luriana]

"There's no good or evil, but thinking makes it so."

Pretty much the answer for it.

[Rhiannon]

If a psycho killer came into my house I'd put my sword through his face. It's a bit of a ridiculous situation to refer that to anyway isn't it? You really think a Psycho killer would really listen to "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."? Cmon :aldo:

If you really want one to keep your morales straight, then go the old, "two eyes for an eye" one. That way, if someone annoys you, can can fuck them up twice as bad back, and they won't do it again ^^.

Sound immoral? Not really :aldo:

If no one does anything to me, then I just treat people nicely (irl lol). However if someone does something pretty major against me (tries to hit me etc), then I won't sit back, give them a kiss and forgive them.

You can't go round being a saint nowadays so following christian quotes isn't gonna get you very far since most can't be applied to the fucked up, sadistic, violence filled society in what's supposed to be a peaceful civilisation. :wub:

..........

When would you even know you got a phyco killer next to you? I mean jeez, I could be standing right next to you and I might be one and you might never know. But that's not the point. The killer thing was just a wacky example, and that quote is just something I like to follow AT TIMES.

Of course if someone hits me I'm most definitely hitting back, and with a vengeance. Yeah, at times I'd like to think I'm a good person, and that maybe there's still a few "good" people out there as well, but like you said, we live in twisted society and I'm way to pessimistic to believe humanity is any good at all.

We all wish we were, but deep down we know the truth.

..........

[Pixel]

I will agree with Esagan that morals are not some sort of universal thing. Tons of things are acceptable in some cultures and seen as terrible in another.

Here is where I am going to disagree with the Bible (even though I am Christian, ZOMG :aldo:). I don't care what the fuck it says, you have a conscience before you become a Christian or protestant etc, etc (If you have no idea what I am talking about, go read the good book or something).

What is right and wrong came from our conscience's. I say since the beginning of time we could feel when something was wrong; thus how "moral acts" and morals themselves were born.

Somethings people call immoral though I just say is a matter of opinion as to either they are or not so, meh.

Basically I think humans have always been able to sense when something was not right, so we made laws, moral codes, etc, etc. These vary by cultures and such. Thus we began to label things as right and wrong.

EXAMPLE: For instance, someone used to think an eye for an eye was totally fair, NOW to kill a murderer you have to be:

A) Some part of a government program who go to arrest him/her and they open fire, and you can fire.

B) Just shoot them yourself and risk going to jail.

C) Let the "great" court system find the killer guilty or not.

Some would say only C would be moral (or fair). Some would say only A and C, some would say B is right.

And after typing that, it makes me wonder again if al humans have the same sense of right and wrong. Because, if we did, that above scenario of people thinking different things were moral would not happen.

So, do we all have a sense of right and wrong? And if we do, it it basically universal and the more detailed moral rights and wrongs are learned from our parents or do we all just have a different sense of right and wrong when we are born?

[Maggy]

So, do we all have a sense of right and wrong? And if we do, it it basically universal and the more detailed moral rights and wrongs are learned from our parents or do we all just have a different sense of right and wrong when we are born?I think we don't have any sense of right and wrong when we are born. We get this sense by learning the rules our parents teach us. Later we start to think about these rules and compare them with rules of other families/countries/cultures or just try to decide whether some seem to be logical or not. That's why morality is changing all the time from one generation to the next.

[Misschoco]

Morales are something which grow with society, and morales are not universal.
I never meant they were entirely universal. But that most ideas or morales are 'applicable' in general. Universal is something understood by 'all' but i dont think that its 'literal' in its meaning completely.

I
I say since the beginning of time we could feel when something was wrong; thus how "moral acts" and morals themselves were born.

Basically I think humans have always been able to sense when something was not right, so we made laws, moral codes, etc, etc. These vary by cultures and such. Thus we began to label things as right and wrong.


Okay im gona be a complete bitch here and just complicate things :wtf:
But why do humans 'feel' when something is wrong? I mean where do these feelings originate from.


I'd usually offer more of a view but even if i were to debate over this for a while I'd get no where personally.

[Munkya]

But why do humans 'feel' when something is wrong? I mean where do these feelings originate from.
It's just a fact that those feelings, or morals in general come from education.
Someone said that before and its nothing more to that,
Morals are not born. There have been such experiments in the past, where children have been isolated from the very beginning and they have been educated in a special way... a very special kind of experiment and I don't want to get too detailed here.
I just bring that up to make clear, that moral is educated, and is something, that comes NOT from within. You don't get born with moral that get's corrupted from the world.

Edit:
Okay im gona be a complete bitch here and just complicate things :wtf:
Damn...I fell for your cruel trap...>_<

[Pixel]

Okay im gona be a complete bitch here and just complicate things :wtf:
But why do humans 'feel' when something is wrong? I mean where do these feelings originate from.


I'd usually offer more of a view but even if i were to debate over this for a while I'd get no where personally.

Gawd, like I know. This is where my brain wants to explode. :wtf:

[Misschoco]

It's just a fact that those feelings, or morals in general come from education.
Someone said that before and its nothing more to that,


But wouldnt that 'Education' Have come from the feelings of whats right or wrong :wtf:

Oh snap we're back to square one.

[AT23]

ffs im athiest so try not to interject anything too much about God for once But why do we decide that some things are good and some are bad.As in why do we all universally assume that something is 'Good' Where did these principles develop from.I may be going of topic.But what im trying to say is where to right and wrong come from?.
Morality could come from 3 things.

1.From us:Morality comes from how we reflect or feel about things.We make things wrong or right by approving or disapproving of things according to our feelings.

2.God :cathryn: If God disproves of something we all go to Hell.

3.Things are right and wrong anyway.

Discuss.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) After giving much thought and consideration, this is my definition:

Moral/Morality - Priority, Values, Importance or Benefits in various degrees and personal beliefs for each and every one individual of the human race. (Limit to the human race subject to change without warning or notice).

2) God is more or less a human creation. I can certainly tell you, Christian, Buddist, Atheist, whatever you are, that you, and every other individual breathing and alive, are in control of what you do. Not your higher beings, or god, but you. If you do believe in a higher being, and say, that they're "communicating" through to you via your mind, heart, thoughts and/or feelings, *YOU* are still the one accepting and confirming, and saying or acting upon this "communication" you had with your higher being. What about the artifacts and recorded documents? Those are things left and preserved for the present from when people can comprehend and label tangible objects and conceptual ideas. There is no "proof"
that they have been left by your higher, spiritual being.

3) Choco, the things you say are totally rubbish and... er... I mean, true! :D It's to say the least that as long as the human race exist with a "consciousness" (and I use the term lightly since I actually do think there are certain parts of psychology that are rubbish.) that there are and will be rights and wrongs.

The problem is that morals/morality is one of the major factor or things "psychology" and "philosophy" revolves around. I find both to be unstable methods or systems of thinking only supported by half-assed evidence and proof. Without drawing out into a cumbersome rant, "psychology" is half-assed because it is mostly supported with tangible evidence through biology and chemistry, and "philosophy" is a one-sided grouping of opinions given from people who think at "a high level" and are of "superior beings".

I don't agree and operate on some of the levels that people here have expressed and believe in. For example, I, too am athiest. I will also so that morals ARE universal. This is because every single breathing and living human being are operating on morals. Now if to ask if the same morals are *shared* universally, the answer is no. That is the reason why there are differences between every countries and people, cultures and etc. That is what makes each person unique and an individual. To conform with a group of people on agreed upon rules and laws and the shared views between individuals on what is "right" or "wrong" is what makes a society. We also have labels and names for smaller groups or specific groups within society that all of us are familiar of, such as "posse", "clique", "fan club(s)", "groupies", and many more.

We do not "learn" morals from society. Learning only provides and exposes to us more options and resources to which we draw upon to take what we like and build our morals on. Morals are not something that are directly influenced from one source like "society", but more like going along with the definition I gave above, are being given informations and resources from whoever raises them in a specific and unique environment, and progressively in a seamlessly continuing chain to take what is beneficial/harmful and have the most value and holding on them/believing in them or not. It is influenced by many things, and is an intricate collage of various factors to make each and every one of the who we are now which probably has changed in some ways or will change in the near or distant future. In some sense, this could be interpretted as a "reality" to some or many people.

Some of the things I've seen posted here are not right or wrong, but understand that those are your views and one of many "morals" that exist. Of a select few, they didn't even define or answer the question of what morals/morality is in a logical or real sense, but just gave their opinions and philosophy.

Finally, to answer the last question of why we "feel" if something is wrong. Well, if there is a "wrong", then there certainly is a "right", isn't there? In the case of human beings, where we reproduce and propagate to survive and keep the human race from going extinct, we need indications of what is helping is stay alive and well, which is the "right", and the other things that threaten our vital signs as "wrong". You can say that it is what we were biologically equipped with, which in one way would be our "instinct" for the things that we act and react upon. To make a theory, our bodies have chemicals (as you all know far too well, and is especially an important factor in "psychology" such as dopamine, seratonin, adrenaline, etc. etc.) that act as an indicator to when "we should feel there is a threat to our well-being or existence". Say, for only one of many examples, that you are depressed because you broke up with your boy/girl friend. Going back to biological and instinctual patterns, in order to reproduce and keep the human race or at least your blood line perse alive, you need the opposite sex to mate with you and make a new copy, in the form of a baby to exist. In today's world we are bombarded with various media and perspectives of people, but it is for the most part agreed that having a partner and having the opportunity to reproduce is a "favorable" trait. So the opposite would mean not having a partner to mate with, and not being able to reproduce. So breaking up with someone that you "liked" means not having the "favorable" opportunities. Our bodies are equipped and set up so that, if our brains cognizes/recognizes this information or situation, then the brain or other organs of our body reacting to other chemical reaction in our brains as a result of catalysts secretes chemicals that make you feel ill as a defense mechanism, indicating that there is something "wrong". The "wrong" would be the result of breaking up and not having a current mate/partner and all the "favorable" traits that come with being human and keeping the human race alive. That would be the depression, and the "feeling" or indicator we get sometimes for our supposed "well-being" and being "right", or should I say "all right/alright"?

Just my two cents.

[Pixel]

But wouldnt that 'Education' Have come from the feelings of whats right or wrong :wtf:

Oh snap we're back to square one.

OH SHI-

Plus, we would have to know Good or Bad to know the other, so, someone would have had to have a gut feeling of which was which and label it like that, or they just labeled it out of the need for labeling.

[Misschoco]

We do not "learn" morals from society. Learning only provides and exposes to us more options and resources to which we draw upon to take what we like and build our morals on. Morals are not something that are directly influenced from one source like "society", but more like going along with the definition I gave above, are being given informations and resources from whoever raises them in a specific and unique environment, and progressively in a seamlessly continuing chain to take what is beneficial/harmful and have the most value and holding on them/believing in them or not. It is influenced by many things, and is an intricate collage of various factors to make each and every one of the who we are now which probably has changed in some ways or will change in the near or distant future. In some sense, this could be interpretted as a "reality" to some or many people.


Finally, to answer the last question of why we "feel" if something is wrong. Well, if there is a "wrong", then there certainly is a "right", isn't there? In the case of human beings, where we reproduce and propagate to survive and keep the human race from going extinct, we need indications of what is helping is stay alive and well, which is the "right", and the other things that threaten our vital signs as "wrong". You can say that it is what we were biologically equipped with, which in one way would be our "instinct" for the things that we act and react upon. To make a theory, our bodies have chemicals (as you all know far too well, and is especially an important factor in "psychology" such as dopamine, seratonin, adrenaline, etc. etc.) that act as an indicator to when "we should feel there is a threat to our well-being or existence". Say, for only one of many examples, that you are depressed because you broke up with your boy/girl friend. Going back to biological and instinctual patterns, in order to reproduce and keep the human race or at least your blood line perse alive, you need the opposite sex to mate with you and make a new copy, in the form of a baby to exist. In today's world we are bombarded with various media and perspectives of people, but it is for the most part agreed that having a partner and having the opportunity to reproduce is a "favorable" trait. So the opposite would mean not having a partner to mate with, and not being able to reproduce. So breaking up with someone that you "liked" means not having the "favorable" opportunities. Our bodies are equipped and set up so that, if our brains cognizes/recognizes this information or situation, then the brain or other organs of our body reacting to other chemical reaction in our brains as a result of catalysts secretes chemicals that make you feel ill as a defense mechanism, indicating that there is something "wrong". The "wrong" would be the result of breaking up and not having a current mate/partner and all the "favorable" traits that come with being human and keeping the human race alive. That would be the depression, and the "feeling" or indicator we get sometimes for our supposed "well-being" and being "right", or should I say "all right/alright"?

Just my two cents.
Was a lot to digest, even if I try to avoid these kinds of debates as I always feel that its going to be long-winded and I’m always left with more unanswered questions in the end but I’m still drawn to them.
I’m intrigued so thankfully I’m not a lazy arse and still read all your views which are well developed and im thankful for some real analysis even though i may not offer it myself all the time.
This is not entirely looking at the question yet but you used the term conscience..I’ve always wondered how the conscience has developed...ANYWAYS.....

I don’t know much about psychology so I won’t touch onto that.

There’s one thing I want to highlight and that’s moral skeptism. We touched upon this on school. I tried listening but I ended up watching the seagulls outside the window. So Im only going to state what I can remember. It was about Moral scepticism I found it interestingly remotely as it states that no one has any real moral Knowledge and that moral Knowledge isn’t possible. There were also other sub discussions about the forms of moral scepticism etc.

[Nagase]

Was a lot to digest, even if I try to avoid these kinds of debates as I always feel that its going to be long-winded and I’m always left with more unanswered questions in the end but I’m still drawn to them.
I’m intrigued so thankfully I’m not a lazy arse and still read all your views which are well developed and im thankful for some real analysis even though i may not offer it myself all the time.
This is not entirely looking at the question yet but you used the term conscience..I’ve always wondered how the conscience has developed...ANYWAYS.....

I don’t know much about psychology so I won’t touch onto that.

There’s one thing I want to highlight and that’s moral skeptism. We touched upon this on school. I tried listening but I ended up watching the seagulls outside the window. So Im only going to state what I can remember. It was about Moral scepticism I found it interestingly remotely as it states that no one has any real moral Knowledge and that moral Knowledge isn’t possible. There were also other sub discussions about the forms of moral scepticism etc.

If you're going to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair. If you're going to San Francisco, you're gonna to meet some gentle people there. For those who coooome to San Francisco, summertiiimme will be a lovin' there. In the streets of San Francisco, gentle people with flowers in their haiiiirrrrrr.

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/JesusBlewMeOnce/1229056287381.jpg

[dilldoe]

Morality is subjective. When you get down to it, that's what it is - it is a subjective opinion and set of ideas, about what is "Best". and what is Righteous. It would be nice to believe, that everyone would come to the same conclusions of what is best; at least on some sort of a basic level I.E. Good, being what is prosperous, that what nurtures life, that which grows, and balances all life and existance in an equilbrium. And Bad, being what is harmful, what is detrimental, what is self-serving, what harms the entirety of life and existance, and tips the balance. But you will, always, have someone who disagrees, FIRSTLY, with those fundamentals - BECAUSE, what they value most, what they prioritise, is some personal agenda. And Secondly, you will Always; as a result of social groups and structurings, have disagreements on the Minor details.

For example, take two very different people. One, the child of nature, a native tribesman of a far away land. Two, a City child, born and raised in a concrete jungle; equally as far away. The manner in which they grow, and learn and exist, will quite clearly be VERY different. As such, they will have different priorities in their life. Now, barring any sort of political regime, or personal agendas of governments and dictators; what these two people will BOTH value, is Life. Their own life. The live's of those around them. Nature's child, will value the animals that he kills in order to get food I.E. the hunter gatherer. The City's Child, will Value his large stocks of processed and stored products - the Hoarder. To the Hunter Gatherer, the Hoarder will seem Immoral - He takes more than he needs, and clings to it like a selfish child. To the Hoarder, the Hunter Gatherer, will indeed seem to be immoral - he takes the live's of other creatures, in"cold blood", it would seem, to sustain himself. Who is Right? Who can you say is morally Right? And who is Morally Wrong? The hunter gatherer is right, for himself, and his way of life; and the hoarder's way of life is wrong for the hunter gatherer. The Hoarder's way of life is Right to himself and HIS way of life - the hunter gatherer's, wrong to the Hoarder.

If you managed to keep up there, the point being; Morality is simply your Code of Honour. It is your own way of life. It is what you value; what you WILL do, and what you WON'T do. What you are prepared to take from one hand, in order to gain with the other. Living in a particular society or group, will grant you that group's priorities, and as such; Moralities. But it happens on a personal level also. It is individual natural thought, and way of life - it is how you live. If you have no morality; you have no honour - you have nothing you value. It is the things you value most that make up your Morality.

[sobchack]

..........


I'm atheist as well. Funny how one of my life rules originates from Christianity. "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."


..........


pretty much what most morals come from. no such thing absolute morality though

[Luriana]

The weak point of morality lies in the fact it isn't absolute. :aldo:

[Rokuro]

Maybe I'm just messed up, but I honestly believe that killing isn't wrong, it's just unacceptable by others.

Ahem...Going off of what dilldoe said, morals are subjective. The worst acts of our race have been in the name of rightiousness or "for our children" and selfishness inadvertently helps the world more than charity ever will. And it will always be impossible for us to find a medium, there will always be people who hate war, and others who think that peace is too boring to live with. Morals are just part of the ego and nothing more, sure there are consequences, but no one is forcing you to follow them.

[Astraia]

It differs from person to person...just like culture. Some cultures may seem kinda off to others. Same goes to morality. Different strokes for different folks.

[007vader]

ffs im athiest so try not to interject anything too much about God for once But why do we decide that some things are good and some are bad.As in why do we all universally assume that something is 'Good' Where did these principles develop from.I may be going of topic.But what im trying to say is where to right and wrong come from?.
Morality could come from 3 things.

1.From us:Morality comes from how we reflect or feel about things.We make things wrong or right by approving or disapproving of things according to our feelings.

2.God :cathryn: If God disproves of something we all go to Hell.

3.Things are right and wrong anyway.

Discuss.

That's actually one problem that I find when I think about not being religious.

On #1 you said whatever feels right. That would imply that you have a conscience which is a fairly religious idea given that if we evolved then there is no way for us to have an inherent sense of right and wrong how could there be?

I'm afraid #2 is quite incorrect. Any Christian will tell you that everyone sins and there is no way around that. So in ordered to go to Hell you must reject God and Christ which is a very different story.

#3 doesn't make any sense because without any preconceived notion of right and wrong then there is no right and wrong. After all some people (twisted ones) could say that ending a life is a blessing since all people suffer and to kill them is a kindness. Which I'm pretty sure you will all agree is wrong.

Basically the only non religious means of defining right and wrong that I know of is whatever the majority of society deems it to be. Which is horrible seeing what comes of that. For example many native societies deemed it alright to eat other people. That's not right.
Oddly enough the standards of society now are actually based on religious ideals. Many of the early societies that showed morality were Christian based. Now that's not to say all of the Christian societies were perfect but they showed more morality that many before them and most of our morals today are Christian based. I.E. The laws we have today.

[ExodusVII]

Evolution. Morality is a derivative of survival. Throughout history, the strongest and most productive communities are the ones based on supporting and maintaining the groups well being. Consequentially the societies which are most likely to survive are the ones built around that ideal. It's particularly evident in tribal hierarchies but modern society is nothing more than a glorification of that anyway. Morality is just a by product. Murder, theft, unjustifiable lying are all detrimental to society and would in turn reduce the chance of survival for a given community. I, among many, just think its animal nature. The line drawn between this base animal instinct and morale ambiguity is purely subjective, though fundamental to running human society.

Animals besides humans are no different. Even the most vicious creatures, such as piranhas or Hyenas know not to harm each other. It's just fundamental to their survival. The only differentiation being that humans have the capacity to question this instinct as they're born with consciousness and intelligence. It doesn't make the theory less true, just less perfect, for better or worse.

[Dream Machine]

Evolution. Morality is a derivative of survival. Throughout history, the strongest and most productive communities are the ones based on supporting and maintaining the groups well being.

This. Humans are not naturally selfish (most of the time) but we are naturally altruistic, as most all social animals are as it keeps groups alive and ensures the survival of your species.

It's all too common in our post-modern times to come out with blanket statements like 'there is no morality' or whatever. But I think a lot of the basics (like don't kill other people if you can help it lol) are inherent and are kinda stupid to argue with.

Though I do think a lot of morality we've developed makes little-to-no sense. Personally, I ask myself the question 'will this action help someone? or hurt them?' which is ridiculously broad in most situations but is a good enough guide to be getting on with.

[Nagase]

That's actually one problem that I find when I think about not being religious.

On #1 you said whatever feels right. That would imply that you have a conscience which is a fairly religious idea given that if we evolved then there is no way for us to have an inherent sense of right and wrong how could there be?

I'm afraid #2 is quite incorrect. Any Christian will tell you that everyone sins and there is no way around that. So in ordered to go to Hell you must reject God and Christ which is a very different story.

#3 doesn't make any sense because without any preconceived notion of right and wrong then there is no right and wrong. After all some people (twisted ones) could say that ending a life is a blessing since all people suffer and to kill them is a kindness. Which I'm pretty sure you will all agree is wrong.

Basically the only non religious means of defining right and wrong that I know of is whatever the majority of society deems it to be. Which is horrible seeing what comes of that. For example many native societies deemed it alright to eat other people. That's not right.
Oddly enough the standards of society now are actually based on religious ideals. Many of the early societies that showed morality were Christian based. Now that's not to say all of the Christian societies were perfect but they showed more morality that many before them and most of our morals today are Christian based. I.E. The laws we have today.

On #1 you said whatever feels right. That would imply that you have a conscience which is a fairly religious idea given that if we evolved then there is no way for us to have an inherent sense of right and wrong how could there be?

First of all, evolution doesn't just involve growing limbs like I think you're saying. Emotion, thoughts and anything to do with the brain is, as far as I know, chemical/electrical reactions. It's like saying, just because we feel guilt, there must be a God? Having a conscience is by NO MEANS religious. Saying that alone was almost a thread killer.

I'm afraid #2 is quite incorrect. Any Christian will tell you that everyone sins and there is no way around that. So in ordered to go to Hell you must reject God and Christ which is a very different story.

I know you must have heard this before, but no one ever answers it properly. Take Hitler, apparently he was religious. Are you telling me, that he will get into heaven after committing one of the most renowned acts of genocide in the world, and me and the other atheists who lead a good life but don't believe in God will burn in hell?

It only goes to reinforce one of my theories, that IF there were to be a God, he and Devil would be exactly the same thing. Praise me or burn. yeah, that's real nice.

#3 doesn't make any sense because without any preconceived notion of right and wrong then there is no right and wrong. After all some people (twisted ones) could say that ending a life is a blessing since all people suffer and to kill them is a kindness. Which I'm pretty sure you will all agree is wrong.

Not sure if you're trying to say that if we didn't have morality, right and wrong wouldn't exist, which is obvious, or that you're saying that there's no way we could have picked up morality along the way without intervention.

Even though some cultures believe some things are right and wrong, I do honestly believe that, for instance, executing a girl for being raped, can in no way be justified. Not because it's someone's opinion, but because the opinion is based off of a book. I know it's a different culture etc, but go back to history, and you'll see that almost every religion dictated what was right and wrong yet it still brought almost nothing but death and suffering. By saying there is no right and wrong without preconceived notion is like saying it is physically impossible for a being to gain a conscience through evolution.

It's also like saying people didn't have a conscience BEFORE any religion was around. So, you don't NEED proof to know the difference between right and wrong, I think it just comes through the natural emotional state of a human being. If we're still around in millions of years, we could gain another trait.

Evolution created morality, not God. Keep a kid in a dungeon for 20 years, give him a knife, and then you'll see the natural morality of a human being.

[DrStein]

its all hear say ... right n wrong are different to everyone ... when u ask a muderer if they think they did the wrong thing most will say no and in there eyes wat they did was right .... hitler for example wanted to make a true powerfull race ... nearly everyone will say what he did was wrong but he didnt think so and neither did most of his followers .... morality is just your surroundings and personal oppinion

[chaosblade77]

I know you must have heard this before, but no one ever answers it properly. Take Hitler, apparently he was religious. Are you telling me, that he will get into heaven after committing one of the most renowned acts of genocide in the world, and me and the other atheists who lead a good life but don't believe in God will burn in hell?

It only goes to reinforce one of my theories, that IF there were to be a God, he and Devil would be exactly the same thing. Praise me or burn. yeah, that's real nice.

If I'm not mistaken, Hitler's Christianity was more of a front than anything. Even though he claimed to be a Christian (technically, he was Catholic but never attended Mass or anything) and praised certain aspects of the religion, he also disapproved other aspects. That is something almost any Christian will tell you is a problem, you can't be a Christian and only follow parts of the religion, it's all or none. By ignoring or disapproving of certain aspects, it's pretty much the same as denying God since the Bible is "written by God through man."

Basically, despite his claims, I don't think Hitler could really be considered a Christian (actually, I'd say most Christians today aren't really Christians either for the same reason). That doesn't really answer your question though.

There does seem to be a loophole in Christianity due to the "forgiving" God. As long as you believe in him/his son, you have a one way ticket to heaven. Even if you do something wrong, you just "ask for forgiveness" and it's cleared from your spiritual record. If there's some "magical limit" that marks a point where something is so "wrong" that you can't be forgiven, then that would contradict the Bible.


Anyway, morality varies depending on your social setting. Since morality governs what is right or wrong, neither can exist as an absolute. It's pretty simple.

[DrStein]

an african man who was born in a tribe to poor to feed all the people this one boy grew up in poverty ... but threw the few things he was given he managed to graduate top of his medical class and become a doctor from there he returned to the povety striken village were he saved many lives and went all over africa doing the same thing for most of his life ... on his 67th bday he was diagnosed with terminal cancer in his heart ... on his death bed he was visited by a christian preast opon telling this man his life story and asking if god had a plan for himand if he will reach heaven the man asked him if he was a christian apon saying no the priest shook his head and said only those who accept our lord and saviour will have passage to heaven ..... the african dr died shortly after that ..... I HATE ANY RELIGION WHO SAY ONLY THOSE WHO ACCEPT OUR RELIGION WILL HAVE AN AFTERLIFE .... IF GOD IS THAT PETTY AND CRUEL THEN HE DOESNT DESERVE TO BE GOD

[Nagase]

an african man who was born in a tribe to poor to feed all the people this one boy grew up in poverty ... but threw the few things he was given he managed to graduate top of his medical class and become a doctor from there he returned to the povety striken village were he saved many lives and went all over africa doing the same thing for most of his life ... on his 67th bday he was diagnosed with terminal cancer in his heart ... on his death bed he was visited by a christian preast opon telling this man his life story and asking if god had a plan for himand if he will reach heaven the man asked him if he was a christian apon saying no the priest shook his head and said only those who accept our lord and saviour will have passage to heaven ..... the african dr died shortly after that ..... I HATE ANY RELIGION WHO SAY ONLY THOSE WHO ACCEPT OUR RELIGION WILL HAVE AN AFTERLIFE .... IF GOD IS THAT PETTY AND CRUEL THEN HE DOESNT DESERVE TO BE GOD

I HATE ANY RELIGION WHO SAY ONLY THOSE WHO ACCEPT OUR RELIGION WILL HAVE AN AFTERLIFE .... IF GOD IS THAT PETTY AND CRUEL THEN HE DOESNT DESERVE TO BE GOD

Well said.

[Renzokuken]

"There's no good or evil, but thinking makes it so."

Pretty much the answer for it.


F-F-F-F-FLAWLESS VICTORY!!!!!

It's true though, good and evil are both just matters of opinion, but they are essential for sentient life. If we didnt have the ability to question things such as "what is good?" then we would be exactly like the rest of the life on earth.

[Nagase]

If we didnt have the ability to question things such as "what is good?" then we would be exactly like the rest of the life on earth.

Would that be such a bad thing? We could still have the intelligence to advance except we might not be building end world weapons, having genocides and starting wars. Animals have their land, their territory and manage to thrive. Think, if these dictators didn't think they were doing the "right" thing, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Or as Ripley says, "You don't see them fucking each other over for a God damn percentage".

[Devegas]

face it there is no good or evil in the world but thinking makes it so. besides if anyone brings religion in this that's gonna be shut down immediately because a good 75% of the everyday things people do are pretty much what religion condemns. second murder is also a very touchy issue because back then people were sacrificing anyone and anything for whatever reason and now when people kill it is either because of the following various reasons:
1) they have been raised a certain way or have gone through life where they in turn believe that they are superior and everyone else must die or something like that
2) a means of survival, they have no choice
3) mercy killing, they tried to save them but their is nothing they can do
4) emotional distraction if someone is pissed over nothing or that they lost someone they loved thy're gonna get revenge
moving on to sex that's the one issue that shouldn't be an issue because as humans it is a basic physical need. without it there wouldn't be such a huge population of people. actually i need to post this and some other things i need to get off in a different thread or later because it deals with the kind of person i am

[Munkya]

^stop trying to tell us you're some kind of psycho killer, you obviously just watched too much X-Men.


e: sorry for interrupting the thread, but fuck?!

[Nagase]

face it there is no good or evil in the world but thinking makes it so. besides if anyone brings religion in this that's gonna be shut down immediately because a good 75% of the everyday things people do are pretty much what religion condemns. second murder is also a very touchy issue because back then people were sacrificing anyone and anything for whatever reason and now when people kill it is either because of the following various reasons:
1) they have been raised a certain way or have gone through life where they in turn believe that they are superior and everyone else must die or something like that
2) a means of survival, they have no choice
3) mercy killing, they tried to save them but their is nothing they can do
4) emotional distraction if someone is pissed over nothing or that they lost someone they loved thy're gonna get revenge
moving on to sex that's the one issue that shouldn't be an issue because as humans it is a basic physical need. without it there wouldn't be such a huge population of people. actually i need to post this and some other things i need to get off in a different thread or later because it deals with the kind of person i am

Lol nowadays religon would condemn most peoples actions yes, but we're talking about the roots of morality. Some people seem to believe we can't have gained morality without intervention, for example, religion.

Oh and there's more than 4 reasons for someone to murder. What about murderers who kill for enjoyment, and for contract killers? It's a flawed theory, no offence.

[Devegas]

^stop trying to tell us you're some kind of psycho killer, you obviously just watched too much X-Men.


e: sorry for interrupting the thread, but fuck?!
bitch, i'm talking about a topic and how people view things, it's not my fault i pay attention to things and i want to take psychology when i go to college so stop trying use some personal things i was talking about in another thread to make look like some psycho but if you want me to get angry we can meet each other face to face. and don't bomb on me because of stuff i like i'm a fan of x-men like everyone here is a fan of final fantasy and that has nothin to do with why i'm the way i am so shut the fuck up and fall back

[Nagase]

bitch, i'm talking about a topic and how people view things, it's not my fault i pay attention to things and i want to take psychology when i go to college so stop trying use some personal things i was talking about in another thread to make look like some psycho but if you want me to get angry we can meet each other face to face. and don't bomb on me because of stuff i like i'm a fan of x-men like everyone here is a fan of final fantasy and that has nothin to do with why i'm the way i am so shut the fuck up and fall back

Take a course in Grammar first.

if you want me to get angry we can meet each other face to face.

http://devcentral.f5.com/weblogs/images/devcentral_f5_com/weblogs/macvittie/WindowsLiveWriter/CongratulationsYouareamoron_7EBF/InternetToughGuy_2.jpg

[Devegas]

look people i'm not an internet bully or a cruel person, i have a sweet side that not many of you have seen, or in this case read yet, but i've admitted what i've admitted, i know who i am, and i'll get confrontational when i need to, so there's nothing else that i need to say and that's that...... and let's get one thing straight i'm not a pushover, i do workout because for me it's a necessity, so i can back it up

[Nagase]

look people i'm not an internet bully or a cruel person, i have a sweet side that not many of you have seen, or in this case read yet, but i've admitted what i've admitted, i know who i am, and i'll get confrontational when i need to, so there's nothing else that i need to say and that's that...... and let's get one thing straight i'm not a pushover, i do workout because for me it's a necessity, so i can back it up

So? Nobody is, or would be scared of you so saying meet up face to face as a way of making the other person stop is hilarious. Keep trying, you'll just end up getting mocked XD

[DrStein]

i like cheese :D ...lol ... also im a army man :D is there anyone else out there who is ?

[Nagase]

i like cheese :D ...lol ... also im a army man :D is there anyone else out there who is ?

Troll or retard?

[DrStein]

Troll or retard?

.... i dont get it ... but im thinking retard for u :D and troll for the man under the bridge ? am i right

[Nagase]

.... i dont get it ... but im thinking retard for u :D and troll for the man under the bridge ? am i right

There's no way you're in the army, and if you somehow are, there's no hope if we ever get attacked. :wtf:

[Renzokuken]

Would that be such a bad thing? We could still have the intelligence to advance except we might not be building end world weapons, having genocides and starting wars. Animals have their land, their territory and manage to thrive. Think, if these dictators didn't think they were doing the "right" thing, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Or as Ripley says, "You don't see them fucking each other over for a God damn percentage".



so you'd rather be a slave without the ability to question your actions? and if we didnt have wars and dictatorships the world would be too peacful. It's like the food chain. Everything has some thing that keeps its population down. Now since our brains put us at the top, we have to keep out own population down or else we'd just overpopulate earth

[Aurelia]

so you'd rather be a slave without the ability to question your actions? and if we didnt have wars and dictatorships the world would be too peacful. It's like the food chain. Everything has some thing that keeps its population down. Now since our brains put us at the top, we have to keep out own population down or else we'd just overpopulate earth

Because accidents, poisonings, homocide, suicide, burns, disease, and famine isn't enough to bring the population down. :wtf:

[Renzokuken]

Because accidents, poisonings, homocide, suicide, burns, disease, and famine isn't enough to bring the population down. :wtf:



accidents arent enough, poisionings weed out the stupid or just plain shit luck, i was talking about homocide already, suicide is just fucking retarded so im not even gonna go there, we created an assload of diseases and for the last problem...

...feed the homeless to the hungry

[Astraia]

...feed the homeless to the hungry

uhh...............whut? :aldo:

[Aurelia]

accidents arent enough, poisionings weed out the stupid or just plain shit luck, i was talking about homocide already, suicide is just fucking retarded so im not even gonna go there, we created an assload of diseases and for the last problem...

...feed the homeless to the hungry

-Do you know how broad the term "accidents" is? Accidents kill more people each year than a fucking war. It is enough to bring down the population.

-Not everyone who injests poison is a retard. Can you explain to me how a 3 year old is supposed to know that the red liquid ISN'T punch? And don't say it's the parents fault because you'd be surprised how even the most cautious parent can be foiled by the ingenuity of a child. If the child wants, they WILL find a way to get in.

-I'm putting homicide in a different category from war, so it still counts.

-How dare you put down suicide you pathetic piece of shit? Do you have any idea how fucking down you have to be to actually go and successfully kill yourself? If you haven't worked with psychiatric patients, then I suggest you shut your ignorant mouth.

-Looks like someone forgot about the kingdoms that aren't Animalia and Planate :awesome: Oh I'm sorry, apparently plants and animals can't get sick, only humans can. I think I'll go make a disease out of thin air.

-You are a fucktard. I'm less fucking Christian than you, and even I know it's "feed the hungry." And if you REALLY knew your shit, you'd know that you, I dunno, "help the sick?" which includes those that have been injured. Man you're one fuck of a heartless Christian. :aldo: Oh wait, you're behaving exactly how your ancestors did, so never mind. Great job.

[Devegas]

i don't think i saw this one come up. hell i didn't look deep into the forums that much either but still.
marriage. i'll let ya'll go first

[Nagase]

so you'd rather be a slave without the ability to question your actions? and if we didnt have wars and dictatorships the world would be too peacful. It's like the food chain. Everything has some thing that keeps its population down. Now since our brains put us at the top, we have to keep out own population down or else we'd just overpopulate earth

No, not questioning your actions doesn't make you a slave, there's no leader 0_o. It's not the matrix 0_o

Like Aurelia said, we don't need wars to keep the population down. Nature does that for us. Like you said, our brains allow us to be the dominant species on our planet, so war in itself is a step back.

and if we didnt have wars and dictatorships the world would be too peacful.

I'm sorry but where do you live? Unless it's somewhere like North Korea, you don't have a dictatorship XD

"Too peaceful".....no such thing.

[Dream Machine]

Diseases and health related-problems kill so many more people than war, please get your facts straight :aldo:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8317/87885248.jpg

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index.html

Marriage pisses me off. Marriage should not have anything to do with legal matters, we should have civil unions for everyone and if anyone wants to have a religious ceremony after that, that's their prerogative.

Would cut down on all this bullshit about gay marriage. Personally, I ain't straight myself, but the 'gay community's' obsession with marriage is annoying the crap out of me. I don't like the fact that some over-privileged middle-class white gay guy who wants to be MARRIED because he wants to feel 'normal' and 'accepted' is telling me that the marriage issue is more important than stuff like homophobic bullying in schools, media vilification and the treatment of GLBTQ folks in minority and working class communities.

[Aurelia]

Would cut down on all this bullshit about gay marriage. Personally, I ain't straight myself, but the 'gay community's' obsession with marriage is annoying the crap out of me. I don't like the fact that some over-privileged middle-class white gay guy who wants to be MARRIED because he wants to feel 'normal' and 'accepted' is telling me that the marriage issue is more important than stuff like homophobic bullying in schools, media vilification and the treatment of GLBTQ folks in minority and working class communities.


There's a lot more to gay marriage it than just being accepted by society. :wtf: There is a reason why marriage > civil union, and it's not for the emotional "LOOK WE'RE QUEER AND MARRIED LUL" aspect that you claim it is either.

Also don't you think that by allowing homosexuals to marry would perhaps decrease the discrimination by a small fraction? Anything is better than nothing, even if it is minuscle. There was a time when minorities were not allowed to marry white people, and by them gaining that right, people have come to accept them and their children more.

[Nagase]

Diseases and health related-problems kill so many more people than war, please get your facts straight :aldo:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8317/87885248.jpg

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs310/en/index.html

Marriage pisses me off. Marriage should not have anything to do with legal matters, we should have civil unions for everyone and if anyone wants to have a religious ceremony after that, that's their prerogative.

Would cut down on all this bullshit about gay marriage. Personally, I ain't straight myself, but the 'gay community's' obsession with marriage is annoying the crap out of me. I don't like the fact that some over-privileged middle-class white gay guy who wants to be MARRIED because he wants to feel 'normal' and 'accepted' is telling me that the marriage issue is more important than stuff like homophobic bullying in schools, media vilification and the treatment of GLBTQ folks in minority and working class communities.

Exactly. If I'm not mistaken (which I usually am), SARS killed double the amount of people than world war 1.

Although I don't agree that gay people should have to call it anything different than straight people. Marriage is marriage, and I think changing the name to sound like something you'd find in a lawyers desk takes away any kind of equality It's not though, like you said, more important than bullying in schools etc but it certainly goes to show how the government will bend over ass first to the intolerant.

[Dream Machine]

There's a lot more to gay marriage it than just being accepted by society. :wtf: There is a reason why marriage > civil union, and it's not for the emotional "LOOK WE'RE QUEER AND MARRIED LUL" aspect that you claim it is either.

Also don't you think that by allowing homosexuals to marry would perhaps decrease the discrimination by a small fraction? Anything is better than nothing, even if it is minuscle. There was a time when minorities were not allowed to marry white people, and by them gaining that right, people have come to accept them and their children more.

I think people who see queers as abominations aren't going to be swayed by a piece of paper and a fancy party :aldo: I'm basically arguing for stripping the religious content out of all unions. If the government is involved it should be a contract between two party's, then if you believe in spiritual crap, go to your church/mosque/synagogue/woodland/whatever and get 'married' there.

In Britain we have civil unions and nearly everyone refers to them as marriages anyway. I remember a poll was done before the introduction of civil unions asking if straights also wanted them and the overwhelming answer was yes. the government, being all weird and conservative didn't like the idea of almost an entire generation being in civil partnerships and not married for some reason.

I think a true mark of a secular, advanced society is to get rid of the notion of marriage as we have it, so all the gays clamoring for marriage rights piss me off. Sorry.

Oh and sorry but don't compare the gay rights and civil rights movement, they share some similarities, but seriously, apples and oranges.


Saying "Gay is the new black" poses the following problems for many African Americans:


* The Marriage Equality movement exploits black suffering and experiences to legitimate its own;
* The Marriage Equality movement's rallying cry against heterosexist oppression dismisses its own responsibility when it comes to white skin privilege.
* The Marriage Equality movement appropriates the content of the black civil rights movement, but discards the context and history that brought about it.



But this is not surprising because the larger queer movement has distorted, if not erased, its own history when it come to the Stonewall Riot of June 27-29, 1969 in Greenwich Village, New York City, which started on the backs of working-class African-American and Latino transgender patrons of the bar. Those brown and black queer people are not only absent from the photos of that historic night, but they are also bleached from the annals of queer history and gay pride events.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/gay-is-emnotem-the-new-bl_b_151573.html



Although I don't agree that gay people should have to call it anything different than straight people. Marriage is marriage, and I think changing the name to sound like something you'd find in a lawyers desk takes away any kind of equality It's not though, like you said, more important than bullying in schools etc but it certainly goes to show how the government will bend over ass first to the intolerant.

I do agree that govermental and otherwise opposition to gay marriage comes from a stupid place and that the word does carry power. But it's precisly that reason I think we should get rid of any legal notion of marriage, the power of the word is dramatically reduced as you can near enough call any ceremony that results in a 'joining' a marriage, rather than having it approved by the government (which when you have stuff like the seperation of chuirch and state, perplexes me. You need a secular body to rule over what is a religious institution?)

[Devegas]

personally i don't feel marriage is needed for anybody. it's just basically saying the same thing it'd be saying if they never had marriage: that two people want to be together for the rest of their lives no matter what people say. and quite frankly, we've learned by now that the whole marriage thing wasn't even about that when you didn't even have to know the person you were arranged to be married to. and nowadays the divorce rate grows higher almosty every year if not every month. what is it like 56%, 60 somethin%? and celebrity marriages are basically publicity stunts because for most of them it takes three years at best and then it's over. so i don't know why people want to bitch about gays wanting to get some "supposed right" that we abuse and throw out the window all the time. but, since they do, congress, hell, the world needs to just change things up make marriage the engagement that you can break off at any moment and give everyone unions if you know what i mean, that way the two people who are in love and want to make it official get to have it. or better yet just get rid of it for everyone because most people don't deserve it. try and understand where i'm comin from here

[Renzokuken]

-Do you know how broad the term "accidents" is? Accidents kill more people each year than a fucking war. It is enough to bring down the population.

-Not everyone who injests poison is a retard. Can you explain to me how a 3 year old is supposed to know that the red liquid ISN'T punch? And don't say it's the parents fault because you'd be surprised how even the most cautious parent can be foiled by the ingenuity of a child. If the child wants, they WILL find a way to get in.

-I'm putting homicide in a different category from war, so it still counts.

-How dare you put down suicide you pathetic piece of shit? Do you have any idea how fucking down you have to be to actually go and successfully kill yourself? If you haven't worked with psychiatric patients, then I suggest you shut your ignorant mouth.

-Looks like someone forgot about the kingdoms that aren't Animalia and Planate :awesome: Oh I'm sorry, apparently plants and animals can't get sick, only humans can. I think I'll go make a disease out of thin air.

-You are a fucktard. I'm less fucking Christian than you, and even I know it's "feed the hungry." And if you REALLY knew your shit, you'd know that you, I dunno, "help the sick?" which includes those that have been injured. Man you're one fuck of a heartless Christian. :aldo: Oh wait, you're behaving exactly how your ancestors did, so never mind. Great job.


ROFLMAO !!!!! you think I'm a christian xDDDDDDDD

Jesus can go suck a dick

-first of all where the F**k do you get your statistics...accident cause more death then war, I highly doubt it and when you can show me evidence then I'll take it back xD

-Second, the poison thing, ya thats why I said just plain shit luck sometimes its not the persons fault, and yes it IS the parents fault for leaving around red f**king chemicals while their 3 year old is walking around

-War is homocide on a much grander scale

-Suicide is fail. I'm sorry if you have sympathy for these people but I do not. Ban me, hate on me, do whatever helps you through my opinion, but in MY OPINION people who commit suicide are weak of mind and and need to remember that everyone goes through shit no matter how terrible it is, and no one is an exception, life isnt fair.

-And for diseases, I'm talking about the ones we have brang apon ourselves obviously theres entire f**king worlds of viruses and bacteria.

-Finally Fuuck you, I don't give the least bit of shit about any sentient life on this planet and I hope we do the rest of the earth a gigantic favour and all die off. Let the 3rd world countries starve, let the 1st world countries drive themselves into a deep recession, I'm not a heartless christian, I'm just heartless.


But thank you for your opinion.

Exactly. If I'm not mistaken (which I usually am), SARS killed double the amount of people than world war 1.



WHAT!?!?!??!?!?!?!? SARS was barely a ....ing disease and the only reason it got known was beacause the media could blow it out of proportion, the only people who died of SARS were those who were in constant contact with someone who had a severe case.

[meteor]

ROFLMAO !!!!! you think I'm a christian xDDDDDDDD

Jesus can go suck a dick

-first of all where the F**k do you get your statistics...accident cause more death then war, I highly doubt it and when you can show me evidence then I'll take it back xD

-Second, the poison thing, ya thats why I said just plain shit luck sometimes its not the persons fault, and yes it IS the parents fault for leaving around red f**king chemicals while their 3 year old is walking around

-War is homocide on a much grander scale

-Suicide is fail. I'm sorry if you have sympathy for these people but I do not. Ban me, hate on me, do whatever helps you through my opinion, but in MY OPINION people who commit suicide are weak of mind and and need to remember that everyone goes through shit no matter how terrible it is, and no one is an exception, life isnt fair.

-And for diseases, I'm talking about the ones we have brang apon ourselves obviously theres entire f**king worlds of viruses and bacteria.

-Finally Fuuck you, I don't give the least bit of shit about any sentient life on this planet and I hope we do the rest of the earth a gigantic favour and all die off. Let the 3rd world countries starve, let the 1st world countries drive themselves into a deep recession, I'm not a heartless christian, I'm just heartless.


But thank you for your opinion.

Shut the fuck up man.
You just trying to be cool on this forum because you have no life.

Ban him please!?

[Renzokuken]

Lol who's trying to be cool?

sorry for speaking my mind you douche

[Nagase]

I'm not a heartless christian, I'm just heartless.

Lol, and? All that proves is that you're a giant cunt :)

WHAT!?!?!??!?!?!?!? SARS was barely a ....ing disease and the only reason it got known was beacause the media could blow it out of proportion, the only people who died of SARS were those who were in constant contact with someone who had a severe case.

I actually heard it on the TV show "The Virus Empire". I checked up and found it was an influenza outbreak which killed twice as many as WW1. This however isn't mentioning SARS is a mutated form of influenza.Either way, it still goes to prove that disease can kill more than war, so you can go fuck yourself ^_^.

[meteor]

Lol who's trying to be cool?

sorry for speaking my mind you douche

You are not speaking your mind^_^
You are trying to be cool.

[Luriana]

-Suicide is fail. I'm sorry if you have sympathy for these people but I do not. Ban me, hate on me, do whatever helps you through my opinion, but in MY OPINION people who commit suicide are weak of mind and and need to remember that everyone goes through shit no matter how terrible it is, and no one is an exception, life isnt fair.

If you know what goes through the mind of a person that intends to suicide, then you can give your opinion. If not,

STFU & GTFO

[Devegas]

-Suicide is fail. I'm sorry if you have sympathy for these people but I do not. Ban me, hate on me, do whatever helps you through my opinion, but in MY OPINION people who commit suicide are weak of mind and and need to remember that everyone goes through shit no matter how terrible it is, and no one is an exception, life isnt fair.



now you've done made an enemy. my uncle overdosed on drugs my junior year and he already had depression in him.

things had gotten bad for me at one point that i almost killed myself but now all i do is cut across my arm because i realised i'd be giving too many cocksuckers like you satisfaction and another notch on your belt.

do you know that some of the people who had killed themselves were kids because they were being molested and there was no one who would believe them or give them a concerned ear because they were complete idiots. that pisses me off and is what motivates me to want to shoot people no matter what the circumstances

when you feel like sticking your dick back in your mouth and apologizing then go ahead and post again otherwise i suggest you jump before before i decide for you

[meteor]

now you've done made an enemy. my uncle overdosed on drugs my junior year and he already had depression in him.

things had gotten bad for me at one point that i almost killed myself but now all i do is cut across my arm because i realised i'd be giving too many cocksuckers like you satisfaction and another notch on your belt.

do you know that some of the people who had killed themselves were kids because they were being molested and there was no one who would believe them or give them a concerned ear because they were complete idiots. that pisses me off and is what motivates me to want to shoot people no matter what the circumstances

when you feel like sticking your dick back in your mouth and apologizing then go ahead and post again otherwise i suggest you jump before before i decide for you

You earned my respect for being so open about yourself.I dont know if i could do that. I think your a strong person that deserves better ten cutting yourself.

[Devegas]

that means a lot usually i can't bring myself to do something like post that let alone say anything but when i feel strongly about something and how disrespectful and ingorant someone acts, i can't just sit around anymore and let them go on

[meteor]

that means a lot usually i can't bring myself to do something like post that let alone say anything but when i feel strongly about something and how disrespectful and ingorant someone acts, i can't just sit around anymore and let them go on

Good Heart :)

[Nagase]

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq307/JesusBlewMeOnce/1243206410325.jpg

[Renzokuken]

lol. you people are so dumb. Every single one of you. You miss the whooooooooooooooooooooole point. The entire point of this post was to annoy every single one of you. And you know what?
It was a complete success. I even made a few enemies. but really good job.


Stupid ignorant fools.

[Hynad]

They can't be called ignorant for not knowing your latent intentions.

You, on the other hand, are nothing more than a retarded troll.

[Aurelia]

I like how when everyone calls on Renzokuen he suddenly says "LUL I TROLL U." :aldo:

Protip: A troll never reveals that he/she is a troll.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r44f47.jpg

[Hynad]

That's where the "retarded" comes in. ;)

[Astraia]

lol. you people are so dumb. Every single one of you. You miss the whooooooooooooooooooooole point. The entire point of this post was to annoy every single one of you. And you know what?
It was a complete success. I even made a few enemies. but really good job.


Stupid ignorant fools.










*YAWN* :wtf:

[Nagase]

I like how when everyone calls on Renzokuen he suddenly says "LUL I TROLL U." :aldo:

Protip: A troll never reveals that he/she is a troll.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r44f47.jpg

Exactly! XD

[Whiplash]

Awww I missed all the fun :(

[Nagase]

Awww I missed all the fun :(

It was all fun until he pretended to be a troll. Then it was just....just so pathetic ;;

[Misschoco]

-Suicide is fail. I'm sorry if you have sympathy for these people but I do not. Ban me, hate on me, do whatever helps you through my opinion, but in MY OPINION people who commit suicide are weak of mind and and need to remember that everyone goes through shit no matter how terrible it is, and no one is an exception, life isnt fair.



-Finally Fuuck you, I don't give the least bit of shit about any sentient life on this planet and I hope we do the rest of the earth a gigantic favour and all die off. Let the 3rd world countries starve, let the 1st world countries drive themselves into a deep recession, I'm not a heartless christian, I'm just heartless.



I was off the forums for quite a while but its sure great to come back to a shitload of 'diverse' opinions :wtf:

Okay. So you think it'd be great if 'everyone' was dead Including yourself...you dont give a shit about any form of life-again including yourself..because you didnt make yourself an exception.

Fair enough.

So even if you were severely molested,or abused to an extreme..you still wouldnt consider suicide as an only escape from hell but sit there cursing people that starve in 3rd world countries^? :cathryn: