Crystal Tools vs Unreal Engine.

[Vtks]

Why do you think S.E. asked Epic Games for that engine?

I mean we already watched at FFxiii and vsXIII in game sequences and they look way better than GoW 1, 2 Ureal tournament and Last Remnant.
from my point of view Crystal Tools's better than Ureal Engine but what'cha think??

[VersusXII]

I think I agree, Crystal Tool's games look better overall, but the Unreal Engine has more western recognition, so it makes sence (sp?I can never spell that word) that they used it on The Last Remnant 'cause it was a 'RPG for the world' .
Essentially NA and EU know the Unreal's name, (and it generally has a cool artistic style. aka Grey, apocalyptic) but Crystal's look better in every other way)

[Wandering Hands]

Or it could be... Perhaps they wanted a complete engine instead of having to develop The Last Remnant on an incomplete one?

I doubt even Crystal Tools could have saved TLR. :wtf:

[finalmattasy]

I think crystal tools may get better results, but assume that unreal has a more refined toolset. I'd imagine that making a crystal game would be more complicated and expensive to do.

[Kitmitsu]

Ummm it's pretty simple. Square-Enix needed to make a next generation title and Crystal Tools was incomplete. So they did what a lot of companies did and bought one. Of course The Unreal Engine is a mess and can only really be used by Epic properly. Even if it was a good engine, it had almost no Japanese documentation making it hard for the staff to code with.

[Vtks]

then why did Square asked for that engine because i remember that in early stages of the anouncement of XIII they anounced that XIII will be using the Unreal Engine don't you remember???

[Zezlar]

Probably because Crystal Tools wasn't fully developed and they might have wanted to see what they should do right. Unreal Engine has alot of problems, maybe they were studying it to make sure they didn't make the same mistakes.

[Kitmitsu]

then why did Square asked for that engine because i remember that in early stages of the anouncement of XIII they anounced that XIII will be using the Unreal Engine don't you remember???

No, that's a lie. Square-Enix never said they would use the Unreal Engine for any Final Fantasy title.

[Dart-123]

Unreal Engine s an relatively-easy-to-use engine that can create above-average graphics. The Crystal Tools take time to master but can create graphics that can top some of Hollywoods best tricks.

I would go with the Crystal Tools for Square since they know how to use them best and will use them to their maximum efficiency.

Oh and for the record, no, Square never said that they would use Unreal Engine for Final Fantasy at all; people just speculated that since at the time it wasn't confirmed what Versus XIII was using for it's graphics yet. Since then, it's been confirmed to use the White Engine (the old version of the Crystal Tools) for it's engine.

[serpent]

i dont know much about this staff, but i can make a guess. Maybe they asked for the engine, that they could start to produce of the Xbox360 version?

[Sabin]

Crystal Tools was an engine designed for the Final Fantasy series.

Unreal Engine is a good way for SquareEnix to release games faster. They do not have to create a new engine everytime they plan to make a new game and the costs are lesser because of the faster production. In other words: Time is money, UE saves them money.

[Ikkin]

Crystal Tools was an engine designed for the Final Fantasy series.

Unreal Engine is a good way for SquareEnix to release games faster. They do not have to create a new engine everytime they plan to make a new game and the costs are lesser because of the faster production. In other words: Time is money, UE saves them money.

Exactly.

Also, Crystal Tools is a Square engine; UE3, so far, has only been used in an Enix game (The Last Remnant). They like to keep the two parts of their company separate, for whatever reason.

[The_Steve]

eye think that Kristel Tules will be better for hair and crisp lines. If you've ever looked at an Unreal engine games, they seem to add a lot of detail (crap loads of scars for Marcus Pheonix, he must have been a pimply bastard) which is a way to cover up some flaws.

Exactly.

Also, Crystal Tools is a Square engine; UE3, so far, has only been used in an Enix game (The Last Remnant). They like to keep the two parts of their company separate, for whatever reason.
They keep the games teams separate because they don't want to accidentally have DQ themes in FF and vice versa.

[Monkey]

Well considering how the Last REmnant turned out, its no contest.

[Joseph Handibode]

Crystal Tools is better than Unreal Engine. They are using the crappy unreal engine for their low key games like Last Remenant. FFXIII and FFXIIIV will blow it away big time.

[Pixel]

I don't care what engine they use. The main title they have (FF's) should be run using Crystal tools. Anything else can be run with the UR3 engine, as long as it works.

LR was a fucked up product, and hopefully they will not release something that buggy again.

[njdeadhead]

Dose any one know what engine was used to make Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. So far the best game I have played from this gen. So far no bugs yet but not done.

[Fantasy]

It Used The "In-House Engine" .

[Neophoton]

I would hope not. Square farted out the crap that was The Last Remnant. To be fair, though, it was their first attempt.

Still, you'd think they would try a bit harder to iron out the bugs in that game. :U

[Sabin]

I would hope not. Square farted out the crap that was The Last Remnant. To be fair, though, it was their first attempt.

Still, you'd think they would try a bit harder to iron out the bugs in that game. :U

Does it have technical issues?
Yes, long loading times, framerate drops and textures pop in 3 seconds late.

Does it have any bugs?
No.

[Neal]

Well I've only been playing for a few hours but yeah, graphics are shit in places, frame rate is pretty bad and pop in is CONSTANT. It's not a brilliant game but aside from tech issues there aren't any bugs that ive seen. Nothing game stopping, just irritating issues.

Tomb Raider: Underworld for Wii had a huge bug. A level didn't appear, so you couldnt progress and finish the game. That's fucking terrible, there's nothing like that (yet).

[jqloud]

Don't worry people.

They would never spend all that time and money on developing Crystal Tools just to start working with UE out of the blue.

As others have said before me,it's for the low end games,the ones that need to be delivered fast,the ones that quality isn't as important as in FF.

FF is the most valuable asset of SE,they will always be using their best gear for it.

[Hynad]

Oh and for the record, no, Square never said that they would use Unreal Engine for Final Fantasy at all; people just speculated that since at the time it wasn't confirmed what Versus XIII was using for it's graphics yet. Since then, it's been confirmed to use the White Engine (the old version of the Crystal Tools) for it's engine.


In fact, Nomura explicitely stated in an interview (look it up yourself) that he'll be using an IMPROVED Crystal Tools engine.

So basically, he said the complete opposite of what you claimed.

[Xiyng]

I think UE3 looks fantastic tech-wise but personally I've disliked its overall style since I saw the first pics of UT3... The engine does look pretty decent in a few games (Bioshock, though still a bit generic, and GeoW, though especially the first one is too grey in addition to general UE3 style). Still, in general I don't like it. It's mostly too... Glossy? I don't know, I'm not sure if it's the right word. Anyway, you get the idea: it has that look that distinguishes it too well and in a bad way to me.

Crystal Tools is pretty good though it looks a bit too bland; just a little bit. Technically it seems inferior to UE3 but I like its overall style more.

[byoushinn]

Unreal engine is fast/cheaper to develop with
therefore they develop smaller IPs (such as TLR) using this to cut costs and make the most from their investment
They can afford to go all out with Final Fantasy because it's a guaranteed seller.

[Moklin]

No one ever played a Crystal Tool Game.

[xaleskx]

Does anyone else think that most character models that are made on unreal engine look like action figures? Like in gears all the characters look like little action figures haha ^_^ and in star ocean 4 the characters also look like action figures.

[Hynad]

I think UE3 looks fantastic tech-wise but personally I've disliked its overall style since I saw the first pics of UT3... The engine does look pretty decent in a few games (Bioshock, though still a bit generic, and GeoW, though especially the first one is too grey in addition to general UE3 style). Still, in general I don't like it. It's mostly too... Glossy? I don't know, I'm not sure if it's the right word. Anyway, you get the idea: it has that look that distinguishes it too well and in a bad way to me.

Crystal Tools is pretty good though it looks a bit too bland; just a little bit. Technically it seems inferior to UE3 but I like its overall style more.

Mistwalker used that engine for Lost Odyssey and the game doesn't look anything like GoW (no glossy thing that you mentioned, by which I think you meant the "over-use of Bump Mapping", and it's not overly dark and gray like most games using the UE3).

There are some frame rate drops from time to time (which seems to be a common problem by anyone using that engine, which includes Epic Games [anyone who played GoW2 will understand what I mean ]), but overall the game looks quite good in real time.

[Xiyng]

Yeah, Lost Odyssey does seem to look better than most UE3 games though technically it's not that impressive. Can't say much without playing, though, but so it seems judging by a few pictures I just found. Still, better (well, I don't like its artistic design in general but at least it's not the same as the others).

[Pixel]

Yeah, Lost Odyssey does seem to look better than most UE3 games though technically it's not that impressive. Can't say much without playing, though, but so it seems judging by a few pictures I just found. Still, better (well, I don't like its artistic design in general but at least it's not the same as the others).

The effects for the spells and such are amazing in LO. And the lighting is pretty good, but some times the load times are annoying, and I only like about half of the character designs (Gongora, with elite like boots half way through the game? FAIL).

They tend to be very blocky, which was alright for a while. Inventive yes, do I like it a lot? No.

[Hynad]

Loving character designs or not is pretty subjective and in no way a reason to dismiss what it achieved technically.

I do think that they aren't the best I've seen in a game, but looking at the overall look of the game, the amount of on-screen polygons at any given time, the in-engine character's facial expressions, and the lighting effects make it hold its place against most best current gen games.

Sure there are frequent loading screens, but installing the game on your 360 makes most of those cut in half, and most of the time, almost make them disappear.

[Sabin]

You are forgetting that Lost Odyssey is show from one single view with no free camera, right?

Both TLR and IU have a free camera wich lets you see more of your surroundings. And both these games have dungeons that are bigger than LO.

But in the end, none of these games used UE in a good way.

Mirror's Edge is a game that used UE correctly. Look at game videos or play it, looks very good.

[Pixel]

You are forgetting that Lost Odyssey is show from one single view with no free camera, right?

Both TLR and IU have a free camera wich lets you see more of your surroundings. And both these games have dungeons that are bigger than LO.

But in the end, none of these games used UE in a good way.

Mirror's Edge is a game that used UE correctly. Look at game videos or play it, looks very good.

Mirrors Edge looks amazing.

And yes, I know. The camera in LO sucks, terribly. I am sure if you had a free rotating camera it would be worse.

LO does not need big dungeons anyway, it basically levels your char. for you. You only need to see about 5 encounters per dungeon to level, if you want to make shit, its gonna take a little while longer.

[Final Twilight]

To me it looks like Crystal Tools looks better, and SE seems to have more of a grip on recognition with that then the UE (If that makes sense...).

[nelsonz]

To me it looks like Crystal Tools looks better, and SE seems to have more of a grip on recognition with that then the UE (If that makes sense...).

Is wrong .... WE can't compare this Crystals tools and Unreal Engine yet !!! :nag:.

several reason for this:

1) If we see the 1st FFXIII trailer which in gameplay "lighting fought with the army" is just the early develop just for the trailer. (probability not created by the Crystal tools). For cutscene It could Pre-rendered/Real-time render probability render by "Maya" (see the development spot of FFXII in youtube for further understanding). :D

2) We didn't get the game yet. (we have not yet seen it on console PS3 yet) so we can't make comparison now based on the video and actual gameplay graphic (Trailer video will have big different in game console). :)

3) Video can have special filter,clean-up,effect, lighting and render ..... which PS3 don't ... hahahaha (personal opinion). >_<

4) lastly ..... Gameplay !!! ... which we haven't try it out before ... hahaha .. just see from the Demo soon >_<

[Final Twilight]

Really? Are you seriously trying to prove this? *Cough*waste of time*Cough*

SE copied the whole thing and added to it (Unreal Engine -> Crystal Tools). The last time I checked in an interview with some of the people working on the projects, the Unreal Engine wouldn't do as what they wanted so they completely re-made it and called it Crystal Tools. In fact I remember them saying that the graphics improved, even over the course of the 3 years graphics improved year by year and SE tried to keep up with it.

Yes we can compare it...

[Hynad]

Errr... You got that wrong. Square-Enix developed the Crystal Tools from the ground up.

I don't know where you got your stuff but here's an accurate one:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166572


So to reiterate, S-E didn't copy a thing. They worked hard for years on their tool set.

[Final Twilight]

Oh thats right...I do know that they improved the graphics between the years. It seems thats what I know about Crystal Tools, lol. My bad, oh well

[nelsonz]

Oh thats right...I do know that they improved the graphics between the years. It seems thats what I know about Crystal Tools, lol. My bad, oh well

Please make a research before post some non-sense reply .. !!! .. As I know Crystal tools have a special function which is "uses four of the six synergistic (physic) processing elements that are available to games running on the Cell processor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_processor)(PS3)". Yah ... crystal tools also can support PC and Xbox360 but inside should have something lag compare to UE which have 10 years experience and improvement within 3 generation. However, we can't indentify for Crystal tools capability and still didn't have any game available in market now as prove.Only the time will tell the truth.

(note: I not make bad a reputation toward Crystal tools by only support for UE but we must fair to each engine... as an extra, still not yet have any game use maximum capable of UE yet.)

~nelsonz~

[chaosblade77]

If I had to choose one over the other, I'd say the Crystal Tools for a couple reasons.

For one, the CGI I've seen from it is more impressive. Not drastically more impressive, but it seemed to have a slight edge. In-game it doesn't matter, both are held back by the console hardware, not engine limitations.

The Crystal Tools engine is also newer. It's possible SquareEnix noted the flaws in UE3 and other noteable game engines while working on the Crystal Tools, for example, the Unreal Engine's infamous texture pop-in issues. This way they could make sure to try to avoid these issues with their engine. Of course, the UE3 is also updated fairly regularly, but not drastically.

Aside from just rendering, we can't really say anything since we don't know anything about the Crystal Tools. The Unreal Engine is widely known and because it's licensed out to all sorts of companies it's specs and technologies that are supported are pretty well known. We don't know anything of that stuff about the Crystal Tools.

Edit: Mentioned this in another topic, but I am posting it here too since it has some Unreal Engine/Crystal Tools discussion.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18246

[Hynad]

Chaosblade77, the Crystal Tools have nothing to do with the CGI cut-scenes.

They use other programs for that, like Maya and Softimage. Crystal Tools are only used for the real time stuff.

[chaosblade77]

Chaosblade77, the Crystal Tools have nothing to do with the CGI cut-scenes.

They use other programs for that, like Maya and Softimage. Crystal Tools are only used for the real time stuff.
I figured they would import the models into the engine for the cut scenes, since the engine may have tools to make it easier.

If that's not the case, then we really don't have anything to compare here because we've hardly seen any in-game footage from the Crystal Tools, and we know nothing about it regarding what it supports and what it can do.

[Dart-123]

Square bought the Unreal Engine rights when Crystal Tools Development was in chaos and far from complete. They thought that the could use Unreal to compensate for their simple titles while their team cranked away on the Crystal Tools.

Now that the Crystal Tools are more stable for game development now, we can assume that Unreal Engine for Square Enix is officially outdated.

[ozonez]

SE most likely fell for the same thing as Bioware (was that it) paid for the Unreal Engine license then realised the engine was nowhere as good as Epic make it out to be and thus decided to make the White-Engine (YES IM CALLING IT THAT CRYSTAL TOOLS IS A STUPID NAME) better.

[Jay_Z]

Square probably got the Ureal3 engine because
A. Crystal tools wasn't far enough along to be using for games like TLR
or B. it was before they knew that Crystal tools would be multi-plat ...or both

[Lord Noctis]

Maybe they see some benefits in the Unreal Engine =/