Plot Speculation about Versus

[Ikkin]

What we know:
- The world of Versus has been at war for a very long time - long enough to destroy all of the crystals but the one owned by Noct's country, and for the rest of the world to become technologically backwards by focusing all of their research on weapons.
- By the beginning of the game, however, Noct's country is in talks with the other countries to put an end to the long war. The party from the recent trailers is a reception that was put on to celebrate the signing of a treaty concerning the peaceful use of the crystal.
- Noct will soon be coronated as the king of his country.
- "Marauders" have decided to attack Noct's country, presumably to steal the crystal. It's unclear whether this is before or after the treaty is signed. However, the term "marauders" suggests that they're not related to any country's official military.
- Noct and Stella end up in conflict, for whatever reason.
- Noct's entire country ends up becoming a battlefield.
- There's some kind of organization of men in suits who appear to be threats to the safety of the world ("the organization of destruction")
- Nomura has mentioned that one of the things he wants to explore in Versus is the "heavy responsibilities that [the characters] carry."
- Versus is supposed to have parallels to the real world, though not to any particular people.


Speculation:
- Long, drawn out conflicts tend to lead to continuing unrest, especially amongst those who feel they've lost. Since it can be assumed that Noct's country gets to keep the Crystal, it would make sense that there would be fringe groups who might not accept the outcome and would continue to fight it.
- If the "marauders" are such a group, it's likely that they'd try to take whatever help they could get from the outside countries. Since they'd have come from those same countries, it's likely they'd get sympathy from them - in the form of anything from sanctuary to weapons.
- It's also fairly likely that such a group might employ terrorist-like tactics, since fighting fairly against a country that's managed to hold the rest of the world at bay for years probably wouldn't work so well for any group, let alone a fringe group.

- If Noct becomes king, then all of this is his responsibility to deal with. However, he would almost certainly be inexperienced, and therefore liable to make mistakes.
- One way this could play out is that Noct demands for the other countries to let his military go after the "marauders" if they try to use the borders to hide. This would, of course, create massive amounts of tension, and give Stella a fairly good reason to need to fight him, while not really making either side clearly in the right or in the wrong. It'd also give us our real-world parallels, without coming across as too didactic.
- The conflict could, of course, expand in many ways from there - either turn back into a full-out war over the crystal, or have paramilitary on either side expand the fighting and cause more problems.

- The "organization of destruction" could take any number of roles in this; it seems to depend mainly on who, exactly, they are. If they're from the outside world, they could be the ones financing the "marauders." If they're from Noct's country, they could either be trying to overthrow Noct, or maybe even be the ones who were really behind the decision to demand that their military could take out "marauders" outside of their own borders.


So, what do you think of my theories? Are there any points where I seem to be off, or any other pieces of information that I missed that might lead to different conclusions? Or, do you have any other interesting speculatory scenarios?

[Naunen]

I think that since we're to hold in mind "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" that we should expect that the outer world thinks that Noctis will up to no good considering the Crystal is in his possession and this Crystal has powers we do not know the limits to or what the power may be itself. We can assume that the outer world is quite a wasteland and his kingdom a prosperous land. From that viewpoint, it's safe to presume that Noctis is seen by others as a selfish heir to a selfish line of kings, therefore, no more must be allowed of Noctis and the Crystal must be taken away from him. We don't know how the Crystal got to be the last or what happened to the other Crystals and how long it had been before this Crystal was the only one left.

We don't know the chronological order of the scenes we've seen but we do know that the game will open with the party and peace treaty scene but it could be a flashback of sorts that leads into something else we probably already know. As for the men in suits, it's been thought that the room they held their meeting in (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-12.jpg) is located in the government building (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-06.jpg) (in the screenshot linked, it's said to be burning down) which is in Noctis's kingdom (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/media/screens/unofficial/v01.jpg). Now as aforementioned, we do not know the chronological order of the screens. It's been assumed that this man (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-13.jpg) may be the king. He was leading the meeting, discussing the current events of the world (and I personally think he looks "evil"). Adding to what we know, this group of men in suits is a threat to the welfare of the world. It was said that in the car (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/media/screens/v05.jpg), Noctis was listening to the radio where they announced the end of a cold war and the coronation of Noctis being near (meaning his father died).

Once he becomes king (if ever, with his run-away-or-cover personality), he will probably make mistakes so big it'll add to the flames of battle and bring on more demanding responsibilities and sacrifices. It's questionable of why the government building is burning (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-06.jpg) but it can be assumed that Noctis decided that. I can't really explain of what I think that Noctis may have been thinking if so but their facial expressions (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-feb-clipping-02.jpg) seem to give off a strong sense of resolution and a hint of no turning back and that this decision was intentional. But we can guess this scene comes later in the game.

If following all of that, that would make Noctis a fugitive. If he burns the government building (which looks mighty important in itself) and leaves his kingdom, does that mean the Crystal was already taken away?

Also, there are more questions: how many people can see the Light? The people who can see the Light, do they have powers like Noctis and Stella? What does the Light have to do with the Crystal? If it does at all? Who is that white-robed man?

We'll need to speculate the hell out of the Crystal, the death god, and this Light power in order to get down to dissecting possible plots with no interference.

[Yue]

Sounds interetsing but I see the story of FFversus has much politics Dx

[Stella Nox Fleuret]

First, I hope it's not that much of politics inside. If they turn it like FFXII, this done.
Personal opinion, I didn't liked FFXII.

When it says "There is nothing good or evil", perhaps it means that nobody is actually good or evil. Maybe Stella's kingdom is one of the nations that are trying to obtain the Crystal and maybe in the end they will realize that the threat was something else, greater.
Like for example, in FFVIII, the war between nations. All of this was happening due of a greater threat, the Sorceress Ultimecia, as she was controlling other Sorceresses. Maybe that Shinigami has something to do with it.

According to the first trailer, it says;

A lone kingdom fightning to forestall the outer world from imposing its heretic order.
Probably Noctis's kingdom, but it says about a heretic order. Could the outer world be that 'organization of destruction', or perhaps the other kingdoms?
Maybe the motivations of the war are religion things and the Crystal of course, which somehow it should connect to all this mythlogy about the 'Light', Goddess Etro, Shinigami, etc.

Now about Stella... Probably Tenebrae is in hostilities with Noctis's Kingdom and Stella has been sent from the Fleuret family to seek the Crystal. Maybe that's why she is been described as an unfortunate enemy, because it is the conditions of the war that tells her to do so.

Now, I really wonder what's the connection between the Shinigami and Goddess Etro. Why the people worships the Shinigami and not the Goddess Etro for example. Because Goddess Etro sounds like a Goddess of light and the Shinigami is just a dark god about death.

About the 'Light'... I believe White Robed Man can see it also and maybe is one of the reasons he is after Noctis. I wonder if him and Stella are known each other or he is coming from Tenebrae too.
Surely, some more people will be able to see the 'Light' too, but why them? What happened to be them? Maybe the man with the suit in that organization can see it too.

Anyways, just speculations, on some theories I do have.

[Ikkin]

I think that since we're to hold in mind "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" that we should expect that the outer world thinks that Noctis will up to no good considering the Crystal is in his possession and this Crystal has powers we do not know the limits to or what the power may be itself. We can assume that the outer world is quite a wasteland and his kingdom a prosperous land. From that viewpoint, it's safe to presume that Noctis is seen by others as a selfish heir to a selfish line of kings, therefore, no more must be allowed of Noctis and the Crystal must be taken away from him. We don't know how the Crystal got to be the last or what happened to the other Crystals and how long it had been before this Crystal was the only one left.

Well, we do know that the leaders of the other countries, at least, don't think it's worth it to keep fighting, even if Noct's country gets to keep the crystal. Though you're probably right that many of the normal citizens would see things in that way. I'd imagine more of them would be willing to protect those who break the peace than actually fight themselves, though.

Wasn't it said in an interview that the other crystals were destroyed in the conflict that had been caused by fighting over the ownership of crystals?


We don't know the chronological order of the scenes we've seen but we do know that the game will open with the party and peace treaty scene but it could be a flashback of sorts that leads into something else we probably already know. As for the men in suits, it's been thought that the room they held their meeting in (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-12.jpg) is located in the government building (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-06.jpg) (in the screenshot linked, it's said to be burning down) which is in Noctis's kingdom (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/media/screens/unofficial/v01.jpg). Now as aforementioned, we do not know the chronological order of the screens. It's been assumed that this man (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-13.jpg) may be the king. He was leading the meeting, discussing the current events of the world (and I personally think he looks "evil"). Adding to what we know, this group of men in suits is a threat to the welfare of the world. It was said that in the car (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/media/screens/v05.jpg), Noctis was listening to the radio where they announced the end of a cold war and the coronation of Noctis being near (meaning his father died).

Yeah, it does seem more likely that the men in suits are from Noct's kingdom. It's just kind of hard to figure out what they want and what they'd do, exactly. Do they want to rule the country? To take the crystal for themselves? Would they be willing to help the outsiders with the intent to use them to their advantage?


Once he becomes king (if ever, with his run-away-or-cover personality), he will probably make mistakes so big it'll add to the flames of battle and bring on more demanding responsibilities and sacrifices. It's questionable of why the government building is burning (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-famitsu-jan-clipping-06.jpg) but it can be assumed that Noctis decided that. I can't really explain of what I think that Noctis may have been thinking if so but their facial expressions (http://finalfantasyversusxiii.net/finalfantasyversusxiii/screenshots/magazine-clippings/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-feb-clipping-02.jpg) seem to give off a strong sense of resolution and a hint of no turning back and that this decision was intentional. But we can guess this scene comes later in the game.

If following all of that, that would make Noctis a fugitive. If he burns the government building (which looks mighty important in itself) and leaves his kingdom, does that mean the Crystal was already taken away?

I see very little reason to think that Noct would have a "run-away-or-cover personality," actually. I think that's been suggested mainly because the Hamlet reference has been taken too far - it's quite possible that Nomura just liked the quote, and didn't put it there to say "my plot is going to be like Hamlet." All we know about Noct's personality is that he's shy, but he attempts to cover it up by acting cool and smiling. Running away is the complete opposite of hiding one's insecurities - it brings them right out into the open.

Plus, while we do see him out of his own country, the main scene shows him out in the open, seemingly content, with his very-cheery friends. That's not the way one acts if they've run away from responsibilities - it's the way one acts if they're a tourist.

I also see little reason to assume that it's Noct's fault that the government building is burning. There's a rather distinct visual reference there (how many towers does the building have?), after all. I'd tend to suppose it was the "marauders'" fault, myself. The sense of resolution in that case would be "I can't let them get away with this" rather than "This was something I had to do."


First, I hope it's not that much of politics inside. If they turn it like FFXII, this done.
Personal opinion, I didn't liked FFXII.

Well, the problem with FFXII wasn't necessarily that it went political. The problem with FFXII was that it went political in a way that put less importance on the characters and their own emotions. FFXII's story was very plot-based - you probably could have replaced the characters with just about anyone, and it would have turned out the same.

However Versus' story goes, though, it's almost certainly going to focus on the characters above everything else. That's what Nomura's been stressing in every single interview he's done, usually in response to people asking about how it's going to be darker (which, really, is a plot question - "what kind of bad/violent things are going to happen?").

If it does go political, it'll do it to show the effects of the responsibility on Noct and his friends, rather than as the main point. There won't be "textbook readings" for worldbuilding like XII did, because dry history is the antithesis of human emotion.

Plus, while Noct might make decisions with huge political consequence, Versus will almost certainly focus on the personal consequences, instead. Noct could make a decision that ends up with thousands of people on both sides dead - but the real focus would be the toll that takes on him, or the fact that the decision has also brought him into conflict with Stella.

Which comes right down to the reason why politics seems like such a bad idea for stories. People just can't care about things on such a macro level - it's kind of just beyond our comprehension. They're more likely to cry over the death of a fictional dog than 40,000 real people dying in an earthquake. So, if a story focuses on big decisions that affect lots of people, but there's no one you really care about, it's just kind of one big blah. And if there's one thing we don't have to worry about with Versus, it's that it'll turn into that.




When it says "There is nothing good or evil", perhaps it means that nobody is actually good or evil. Maybe Stella's kingdom is one of the nations that are trying to obtain the Crystal and maybe in the end they will realize that the threat was something else, greater.
Like for example, in FFVIII, the war between nations. All of this was happening due of a greater threat, the Sorceress Ultimecia, as she was controlling other Sorceresses. Maybe that Shinigami has something to do with it.

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" does not necessarily mean "there is nothing good or evil," actually. In its original context, the intent was "your happiness depends on the way you think about any situation you find yourself in, rather than the situation itself."

I do think that there will be an ambiguity of motivation, but I don't think that it should be read as a statement of moral relativism. Ambiguity of motivation is pretty much necessary if you want to be realistic; moral relativism just tends to make everyone unlikeable.

The problem with a greater threat is, however, that by adding one, you take all that lovely ambiguity and replace it with a dedicated villain. I'd prefer that something like that didn't happen, really.

[Naunen]

I see very little reason to think that Noct would have a "run-away-or-cover personality," actually. I think that's been suggested mainly because the Hamlet reference has been taken too far - it's quite possible that Nomura just liked the quote, and didn't put it there to say "my plot is going to be like Hamlet." All we know about Noct's personality is that he's shy, but he attempts to cover it up by acting cool and smiling. Running away is the complete opposite of hiding one's insecurities - it brings them right out into the open.

Director and character designer Tetsuya Nomura shared with the magazine a few additional details on the characters. Nomura feels that the trailer footage (which you probably haven't seen, unless you made it out to the Tokyo Game Show) tells us a lot about the personalities of the two characters. Stella, for instance, is shown speaking politely to Noctis and without any apparent reserve. This is a reflection of her strong upbringing. In contrast, Noctis appears to be running away, and won't even make eye contact. It may appear that Noctis is cold and unsocial, but he's actually just shy, and he hides his shyness by putting on a veil of coolness.

----Gives me strong reason to believe that he may not want to be king with all that's going on. It's either run away or cover from the sounds of it. This cover may be the theme of sleep Square keeps mentioning because he's not awake yet. That in itself also gives me confidence that there'll come a crucial time where he must awake. This is also where I believe someone (possibly Stella 'cause she's strong and all) will die. And, I've never read Hamlet.

Plus, while we do see him out of his own country, the main scene shows him out in the open, seemingly content, with his very-cheery friends. That's not the way one acts if they've run away from responsibilities - it's the way one acts if they're a tourist.

I also see little reason to assume that it's Noct's fault that the government building is burning. There's a rather distinct visual reference there (how many towers does the building have?), after all. I'd tend to suppose it was the "marauders'" fault, myself. The sense of resolution in that case would be "I can't let them get away with this" rather than "This was something I had to do."

----That was a part of my own theory that I believe would be reasonable because I don't think anyone else could have done it.

I didn't say anything about a "running away from responsibility" thing for the burning of the building. More, a sense of no turning back. Besides, isn't it dangerous to leave one's own kingdom when it has nothing? This scene leads me to believe that the Crystal may have been taken away, whatever it is.

It's questionable of why the government building is burning but it can be assumed that Noctis decided that. I can't really explain of what I think that Noctis may have been thinking if so but their facial expressions seem to give off a strong sense of resolution and a hint of no turning back and that this decision was intentional. But we can guess this scene comes later in the game.

[Ikkin]

----Gives me strong reason to believe that he may not want to be king with all that's going on. It's either run away or cover from the sounds of it. This cover may be the theme of sleep Square keeps mentioning because he's not awake yet. That in itself also gives me confidence that there'll come a crucial time where he must awake. This is also where I believe someone (possibly Stella 'cause she's strong and all) will die. And, I've never read Hamlet.

Oh, I think I get what you mean now. xD I read "cover" as in, "duck and cover!" rather than "cover up his insecurities."

From what I could put together of the trailer from the descriptions, the screens, and how they fit together, Noct was very uncomfortable when Stella tried to get him to talk about the "Light," but then manages to put on his mask of composure by the end ("Call me Noct"). I think it's possible that could be something he's particularly uncomfortable about - his expression when she asks about it looks far more strained than one would expect for someone who's simply uncomfortable around people, and that's where most of the "running away" comes from ("We shouldn't talk about that").

I'm not sure about what you mean about him awakening by shedding the cover - the point of the cover is that he doesn't want to let other people see that he's insecure. Now this could be used against him - if, for instance, he tries to take on too much rather than let others know that he's worried - however I don't know if taking down the cover could be properly described as "awakening," even then.

As for Hamlet, the title character does a whole lot of equivocating about and avoiding acting towards his goal (to avenge his father, who was killed by his uncle), which ends up causing disaster in the end. I thought that's where the impression of Noct as someone who runs away came from. ^^;


----That was a part of my own theory that I believe would be reasonable because I don't think anyone else could have done it.

I didn't say anything about a "running away from responsibility" thing for the burning of the building. More, a sense of no turning back. Besides, isn't it dangerous to leave one's own kingdom when it has nothing? This scene leads me to believe that the Crystal may have been taken away, whatever it is.

I don't know why it would be impossible for anyone else to have done it. The "marauders" seem perfectly capable of killing Noct's guards, and there are certainly ways to attack a building that wouldn't even require them to get inside. Plus, we've got the "organization of destruction" to cause problems, as well - and, if they're self-serving traitors from the inside, they could either cause the fire themselves or help whoever did it.

Plus, there's a bit of a problem if Noct caused the fire - he and his friends sort of look on for a bit before turning around, determined. Now, such a scene could make sense even if he did cause it - however, it would almost certainly be the case that it would take place a lot closer to the actual building, rather than watching from above, blocks away. It wouldn't make much sense for them to drive away, then watch, then have a "no turning back" moment.

As for why I assumed that it would be "running away from responsibility," well, it's got to do with the nature of "burning bridges." People don't do that just because they want to spur themselves on to do something else - they do it because they think there's nothing left for them there. Simply losing the crystal wouldn't be enough for there to be nothing left for Noct - the intention in that case would be to retrieve the crystal, and then come back once it was safely back in his possession. The only way it would make sense for him to burn it while still intending to keep his position as ruler would be if he not only lost the crystal, but the whole country got taken over, as well (in which case, it would be less burning bridges and more "well, at least now they can't use that against me").

It's not as if there aren't situations in which the crystal could remain in Noct's country's possession but he would still have to leave the country. If the group fighting him isn't a full military force but rather a smaller paramilitary group, it would be reasonable for him to think that the threat wouldn't be very large, as long as his people were actually paying attention. (In that case, the attack that Noct fights off would be the first, unexpected strike, and cause more damage due to the unexpectedness; once out in the open, though, a small group would be much less effective)

Hmm, I'm now thinking of a scenario in which Noct decides that he's the one who should go after the "marauders" if they tried to hide by border-hopping, since he's got the power to do so, and the other countries might not be much help. It'd give him a reason to go all over the place dungeon-crawling, and would create a whole ton of problems, with both Stella and her country ("Please stop flouting our national sovereignty") and the "organization of destruction" back home ("Let's take over while he's gone"). ...come to think of it, having the crystal stolen by a non-military group would do the same thing, though it would put Noct in a more passive position and make the problems caused seem less able to be blamed on him (since there would be a strong sense of "what else was he supposed to do?").

[Stella Nox Fleuret]

Well, the problem with FFXII wasn't necessarily that it went political. The problem with FFXII was that it went political in a way that put less importance on the characters and their own emotions. FFXII's story was very plot-based - you probably could have replaced the characters with just about anyone, and it would have turned out the same.

However Versus' story goes, though, it's almost certainly going to focus on the characters above everything else. That's what Nomura's been stressing in every single interview he's done, usually in response to people asking about how it's going to be darker (which, really, is a plot question - "what kind of bad/violent things are going to happen?").

If it does go political, it'll do it to show the effects of the responsibility on Noct and his friends, rather than as the main point. There won't be "textbook readings" for worldbuilding like XII did, because dry history is the antithesis of human emotion.

Plus, while Noct might make decisions with huge political consequence, Versus will almost certainly focus on the personal consequences, instead. Noct could make a decision that ends up with thousands of people on both sides dead - but the real focus would be the toll that takes on him, or the fact that the decision has also brought him into conflict with Stella.

Which comes right down to the reason why politics seems like such a bad idea for stories. People just can't care about things on such a macro level - it's kind of just beyond our comprehension. They're more likely to cry over the death of a fictional dog than 40,000 real people dying in an earthquake. So, if a story focuses on big decisions that affect lots of people, but there's no one you really care about, it's just kind of one big blah. And if there's one thing we don't have to worry about with Versus, it's that it'll turn into that.


Well, as I said it was my opinion.
In general, FF suppose to have much fantasy. XII was a game that I didn't enjoyed and it was all normal politics stuff.
I prefered X that was around religion stuff.
Anyways... I agree on that point that Nomura seems to base the story into the decisions of the characters, showing more emotions.

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so" does not necessarily mean "there is nothing good or evil," actually. In its original context, the intent was "your happiness depends on the way you think about any situation you find yourself in, rather than the situation itself."

I do think that there will be an ambiguity of motivation, but I don't think that it should be read as a statement of moral relativism. Ambiguity of motivation is pretty much necessary if you want to be realistic; moral relativism just tends to make everyone unlikeable.

The problem with a greater threat is, however, that by adding one, you take all that lovely ambiguity and replace it with a dedicated villain. I'd prefer that something like that didn't happen, really.

It could be that way, but what about the other? A fantasy based on reality?
Look, I believe that very very later in the game, there will be a great threat. The final boss for example. It will be someone/something.
Imagine if it will be the Shinigami. But probably will end with a tragedy.

[Aquaman]

I see no problems with making a story with less char. emotion. It to me makes it feel grand, large, and makes the char. seem what they are, small pawns in a large chess game.

Thats why I liked XII. Now, I don't want every FF to be like that, but it was very refreshing. Too many games rely on emotion and end up have shitty cliche stories.

And your theory is basically like everyone else's. >>

[Ikkin]

Well, as I said it was my opinion.
In general, FF suppose to have much fantasy. XII was a game that I didn't enjoyed and it was all normal politics stuff.
I prefered X that was around religion stuff.


True. I just wanted to explain why disliking FFXII doesn't necessarily mean that you don't like politics in your fantasy, since it's flawed in ways that aren't a necessary consequence of allowing politics into the story. Political stories don't require impersonal characters and bad pacing, after all. ;)

If you've seen political stories without those problems and didn't like those either, though, that's a perfectly reasonable opinion to hold.


It could be that way, but what about the other? A fantasy based on reality?
Look, I believe that very very later in the game, there will be a great threat. The final boss for example. It will be someone/something.
Imagine if it will be the Shinigami. But probably will end with a tragedy.

I think that being a "fantasy based on reality" makes it even less likely that the final boss will be some kind of threat that neither side knew about, but which caused all their problems and which they need to work together to defeat, to be honest - especially not a supernatural one. The stakes always get higher in the endgame, but it's more realistic that the heightening of the stakes comes from an increase of power on the part of of the side that you're already fighting rather than from a new enemy that suddenly pops up out of the woodwork.

Plus, there are a few major issues with characters who turn up as the cause for everything that went wrong in the story. First off is the fact that people just generally don't like final bosses who show up out of nowhere in the endgame, since it's kind of cheap (notice how in Dissidia, Golbez, Kuja, and Jecht take the villain slots of their respective games rather than Zemus, Necron, and Yu Yevon; Cloud of Darkness is a counter-example, but no one really cares about Xande anyway). More importantly, though, the agency of the characters that you already care about is reduced when you throw in another enemy to explain why things turned out the way they did, which makes them less flawed and therefore less human.

If the Shinigami is an enemy, I'd much prefer that she's an optional boss. Who better to be the strongest fighter in the world than an actual goddess, after all? ;)


I see no problems with making a story with less char. emotion. It to me makes it feel grand, large, and makes the char. seem what they are, small pawns in a large chess game.

Thats why I liked XII. Now, I don't want every FF to be like that, but it was very refreshing. Too many games rely on emotion and end up have ****ty cliche stories.

I suppose it sort of depends on what kind of story you like, really. Macro-scale stories can be huge and epic in ways that more personal, character-driven stories never could be - but, apart from that visual awe that thousands of soldiers locked in battle can bring, any enjoyment from a story where the characters are nothing but pawns must come from the sheer intellectual enjoyment of seeing another world's history being made before your eyes. It's probably of utmost importance that the plot hangs together well here.

If the focus is on emotion, on the other hand, the ideal is for there to be at least one character who you care about so much that when things go wrong for him, you wish you could drag him out of the story and comfort him, and if he dies, it almost feels like you lost a friend - I think Nomura's way of putting this was that it should "feel in the entire body." Games that actually pull this off are really, really rare - even among FF games, the only character who's done that for me is Zack. Then again, I think there are far fewer games which attempt to reach this ideal than you might think - games tend to be driven by plot rather than character even when they focus on a few main characters trying to save the world from the villain rather than political relations between countries.


And your theory is basically like everyone else's. >>

Well, I wasn't trying to stray too far from what we actually know, so that's a minor consequence. Besides, if it really was like everyone else's, what are we all disagreeing about? ;)

[Naunen]

I see no problems with making a story with less char. emotion. It to me makes it feel grand, large, and makes the char. seem what they are, small pawns in a large chess game.

Thats why I liked XII. Now, I don't want every FF to be like that, but it was very refreshing. Too many games rely on emotion and end up have shitty cliche stories.

And your theory is basically like everyone else's. >>

----But the difference is, this one makes more sense since everyone else does it like "Blah blah blah... Ya know? It's like... that!"

Plus, there's a bit of a problem if Noct caused the fire - he and his friends sort of look on for a bit before turning around, determined. Now, such a scene could make sense even if he did cause it - however, it would almost certainly be the case that it would take place a lot closer to the actual building, rather than watching from above, blocks away. It wouldn't make much sense for them to drive away, then watch, then have a "no turning back" moment.

----Have you ever played Final Fantasy II? The emperor burned the protagonists' hometown down and suddenly, the protagonists were on a faraway hill (same distance from Noctis and co. to the government building, it looks like), watching the town burn down. O_o It's apparently a very Final Fantasy thing. What was it that Nomura said about Versus XIII being traditional? D: Too many garbage posts to look through.

[Ikkin]

----Have you ever played Final Fantasy II? The emperor burned the protagonists' hometown down and suddenly, the protagonists were on a faraway hill (same distance from Noctis and co. to the government building, it looks like), watching the town burn down. O_o It's apparently a very Final Fantasy thing. What was it that Nomura said about Versus XIII being traditional? D: Too many garbage posts to look through.

No, I haven't, actually. ^^; That does seem kind of weird, though... XD

I don't think that's the kind of thing Nomura was talking about when he said Versus would be traditional, though. Here's what he said: (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4750)

[It will be] more like a traditional Final Fantasy game than FF13; in Versus 13 you travel across mountains, ocean, wandering in dungeons and battle with summon beasts and so on."

Basically, the gameplay progression will be traditional Final Fantasy - traveling all over the world, going into dungeons, and fighting summons (presumably to gain their powers). Plot-wise, Versus is still supposed to be something entirely different.

[Bleeding Effect]

I post this not to speculate at all but to clarify one point Noctis aint going to die

Why the hell are you saying this idiot (you may ask )

because many people here say that becaue they misunderstoon wehat nomura said about the line of kings he didn't said that he will be the Last heir

he said that he is the LAST IN THE LINE OF KINGS which makes me think of Noct
like Aragorn

If somebody posted this already erase it

[Dart-123]

It doesn't matter too much for me the details of the plot; I know that Nomura and the Kingdom Hearts team will make it epic and classic no matter what.

To me there's one fact about the story that makes Versus my most anticipated game right now; it's a tragedy. Nomura has said that the story of Versus will be a sad and painful journey that will remain concluded when finished.

This is reinforced by two things:
(1) the tragic tone of the game's music thanks to Yoko Shimomura.
(2) the fact that the trailers include a quote from Hamlet, arguably one of the best tragedies of all time.

By all means speculate on the actual plot details, but try t save some surprise for when the game is actually released.

[shphu]

One thing I noticed: the contrast between the shiny conference room and the destruction of the power line along the highway. Also, from the scene where the group stands next the rusty wall and looking at a huge, tall building. There's a cross between new and old (environment speaking).

[Kurai Warrior]

What I got from the trailer is this
There is a peace treaty made between Noctis' country and Stella's country, but Stella's country immediately betrays the treaty and catches Noctis and his guards off guard (soidiers shooting at Noctis as he walks down the steps scene) Then once Noctis goes back in his throne room he meets the hooded man, who somehow succeeds in overpowering Noctis and steals the Crystal. Noctis then loses most of the power he has and cannot fight a group of soldiers on his own so he runs away while the building gets attacked. He runs into the street and sees Stella, who is helping with this whole betrayal (even though it looks like she doesn't like it) and then they fight but he escapes and leaves the city with his friends to go find the crystal. (just a guess :3)

[Eufonius]

its gonna be like romeo and juliet...nuff said >.>

2 familes their in love but cant tell the family or they get pwned....^_^

[Stella Nox Fleuret]

Like Fantasygurl1227 said, maybe Noctis loses that power somehow. Perhaps it has to do with the White Robed Man. Maybe he meets him before he meet Stella and you can see there is a crest on him as well... I didn't quite understood what that man was doing in that room.

But indeed, it seems that Stella's family is respondible for this chaos and the war because they want the Crystal for some unknown reason. However, we don't know who that man with the mafia like counsil is, if he somehow is related to Noctis.

On the other hand, Stella seems that she doesn't wants to fight Noctis and she feels sad about it. Maybe her family forces her to do so and she has no other choice. But what was that purple aura while she was running? And if anyone noticed, her eyes changes from blue to purple. (I bet it has to do something with the Light.)
And also what are those crests? We have seen Noctis, Stella and the White Robed Man having them.

[Bleeding Effect]

mi thought is this

I think that Noct's ability to control his crystals do not come from the CRYSTAL
i say this because when stella and he fought stella's rapier apeared just like nocts weapons

that kind of realtes stella and noct more

[Kurai Warrior]

its gonna be like romeo and juliet...nuff said >.>

2 familes their in love but cant tell the family or they get pwned....^_^
Hell no, it better not be anything like that awful play or I will mentally shoot myself. Please let there be a serious plot without it being drowned in terrible romance. (SE has never been good at making believable romance)
I don't mind a side romance but i'd prefer a serious plot this time around, not bone dry like Final Fantasy XII, but not as love filled as VIII, IX, and X.

[miss_swimmer]

Hell no, it better not be anything like that awful play or I will mentally shoot myself. Please let there be a serious plot without it being drowned in terrible romance. (SE has never been good at making believable romance)


I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates Romeo & Juliet. I had to watch a film where Juliet was around 14, and Romeo was in his mid-30s:wacko:

A twisted version of Romeo and Juliet would be interesting. Noctis found Stella unconscious but think she's dead. He falls in deep depression and goes to the local pub to booze himself up and dies from alcohol posioning. Stella awakens and find that he's dead and stabs herself w/ her rapier and dies in a bloody death.

I don't mind a side romance but i'd prefer a serious plot this time around, not bone dry like Final Fantasy XII, but not as love filled as VIII, IX, and X

Agreed.

[Ikkin]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates Romeo & Juliet. I had to watch a film where Juliet was around 14, and Romeo was in his mid-30s:wacko:

A twisted version of Romeo and Juliet would be interesting. Noctis found Stella unconscious but think she's dead. He falls in deep depression and goes to the local pub to booze himself up and dies from alcohol posioning. Stella awakens and find that he's dead and stabs herself w/ her rapier and dies in a bloody death.

That wouldn't do anything to fix the real issue, though, which is that deaths that are so completely unnecessary and contrived tend to destroy the reader/player's empathy, which negates the reason why you kill off protagonists in the first place. If you're going for the needless waste of life angle, you'd better have good enough motivations on all relevant sides - and they better not be motivations which make the dying protagonist less appealing.

[Kurai Warrior]

That wouldn't do anything to fix the real issue, though, which is that deaths that are so completely unnecessary and contrived tend to destroy the reader/player's empathy, which negates the reason why you kill off protagonists in the first place. If you're going for the needless waste of life angle, you'd better have good enough motivations on all relevant sides - and they better not be motivations which make the dying protagonist less appealing.
Yes, if your going to kill off major, or main characters, then please think of a creative and reasonable way to do it. Not just self sacrifice, or a completely random death that causes other deaths.

[Fenryr]

Quickly jotting down my line of thought without rambling too much:

- Noctis father (the king?) dies, Noctis awaits coronation to king
- Noctis father ruled as the highest form of power with under him a table of advisors (perhaps higher tasks, regardless for my thinking it doesn't matter).
- The table of advisors in my mind would of been the group of men sitting around the table in the trailer.
- After Noctis father's death, the table of advisors wish to be the one's to control the land. This opposed to the idea of a new king.
- The table decide to rid themselves of Noctis to avoid the inevitable coronation so they can maintain their power.
- In come the armed forces now under control of the table.
- In comes Noctis defending himself and the throne

Bla di bla di bla~. Of course I'm just throwing that out there. Not sure if it's already been suggested but I wished to get it off my chest.

[Kurai Warrior]

Quickly jotting down my line of thought without rambling too much:

- Noctis father (the king?) dies, Noctis awaits coronation to king
- Noctis father ruled as the highest form of power with under him a table of advisors (perhaps higher tasks, regardless for my thinking it doesn't matter).
- The table of advisors in my mind would of been the group of men sitting around the table in the trailer.
- After Noctis father's death, the table of advisors wish to be the one's to control the land. This opposed to the idea of a new king.
- The table decide to rid themselves of Noctis to avoid the inevitable coronation so they can maintain their power.
- In come the armed forces now under control of the table.
- In comes Noctis defending himself and the throne

Bla di bla di bla~. Of course I'm just throwing that out there. Not sure if it's already been suggested but I wished to get it off my chest.
Those are very good Ideas. But i guess that would mean that they would have joined power with Stella's country? Why else would Stella attack Noctis too. He's really in deep shit though isn't he. (Assuming that all or some of the ideas you came up with are correct)
If I were in Noctis' shoes, I would be so pissed.
I guess this is where the "Bonds" theme would come in, because the only people who truely stick with Noctis are his friends.

[Fenryr]

Those are very good Ideas. But i guess that would mean that they would have joined power with Stella's country? Why else would Stella attack Noctis too. He's really in deep shit though isn't he. (Assuming that all or some of the ideas you came up with are correct)
If I were in Noctis' shoes, I would be so pissed.
I guess this is where the "Bonds" theme would come in, because the only people who truely stick with Noctis are his friends.

I'm afraid I hadn't even begun to speculate Stella's role in all of this. Only a bit of the basics really. But of course, the relying on friends part would indeed play a role in that sort of theme. If you cannot trust the people you are supposed to govern your country with then your friends are all that remain.

[Kurai Warrior]

Well these are the thoughts that are running through my head. (Although I already posted them in this thread i'm gonna post em again)
-Noctis is about to become king
-The Story opens with the party for the treaty being made between Stella's and Noctis' countries
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/547/finalfantasyversusxiiiflg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
-The treaty is soon betrayed and Noctis is attacked by the soldiers
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9972/cloudvs12tx5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
-He goes out, (beats the living shit out of them) and then goes back into his throne room.
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5705/cloudvs45qb7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
-He then meets the White Robed Man, who attacks Noctis as well, by casting seals around him.I'm assuming this is where Noctis is leveled down. And where the crystal is taken.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/5425/sealednoctismt0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

- Noctis is defeated and flees the throne room, when he runs into the street and sees Stella.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5752/noctissu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

- They then have a showdown, but it will probably end up being a draw and Noctis gets away.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9973/vsscreen015us8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

- I'm assuming Noctis is also in deep shit with this group of men for failing to guard the crystal
or we can go with Fenryr's theory that they are also trying to get rid off him, and are just pissed because the robed man nor Stella succeeded in killing him
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7361/scarypeopleli1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

- He then meets up with the only people he trusts (the Blonde guy first because you see that he is the only one with Noctis when they go to the collapsed bridge), and they go on a journey to get the crystal back.
There is also something about the building burning in the background, but I don't know the relevance of it yet.
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5618/bridgeij7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5853/bingdg1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

-And wherever they are going to first they are going to in a hurry because, Glasses dude is flooring it, while arguing something with Blondie and Noctis.
-This is all I have pieced together in my head so far
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9215/glassesql6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[miss_swimmer]

That wouldn't do anything to fix the real issue, though, which is that deaths that are so completely unnecessary and contrived tend to destroy the reader/player's empathy, which negates the reason why you kill off protagonists in the first place. If you're going for the needless waste of life angle, you'd better have good enough motivations on all relevant sides - and they better not be motivations which make the dying protagonist less appealing.

Yes, if your going to kill off major, or main characters, then please think of a creative and reasonable way to do it. Not just self sacrifice, or a completely random death that causes other deaths.


I was being sarcastic about Noctis getting drunk and stella stabbing herself. I thought it would be hilarous though :P