< Square-Enix Gone Downhill >

[foXhound494]

Square-Soft has gone downhill ever since they merged with Enix. After Final Fantasy X was released soon later Square merged and Is it just me or have most games been average or very poor? For example Final Fantasy XI was a flop in my opinion and Final Fantasy XII was terrible compared to Final Fantasy X. Now we find out that Final Fantasy XIII isn't a PS3 exclusive and is going to the 360. Whats wrong with Square? Do you guys feel the same way?

I want Square-Soft back!

[Enedok]

Breathe man Breathe.

I agree. I Enjoyed FFX, never bothered with a MMO FFXI and FFXII fell flat on me, the story didn't suit me.

But look at FFXIII. They are back. Dont come here and tell me it doesnt look awesome. The entire game is futuristic like Zanarkand. It's going to be great!

[Bun]

I don't know if I'd say they've gone downhill, I think that maybe it's just been a downhill slope for them. Although FFXII was disappointing in terms of plot and character development (and maybe even the battle system, but I can't really complain), they did manage to hit a few marks. Now with upcoming news of FFXIII and FFVXIII, I really think they could be making a huge comeback. I haven't been this excited for a Final Fantasy game since FF8, so obviously it's been a while.

Perhaps it's a little too early to be passing that kind of jugdment on them? We should at least wait until there's a playable demo out for the public, if not being able to play the game(s) in its/their entierty.

[foXhound494]

But look at FFXIII. They are back. Dont come here and tell me it doesnt look awesome. The entire game is futuristic like Zanarkand. It's going to be great!

I do agree that FFXIII looks really good although going to the 360 is pretty low in my opinion.

[Thimien]

i oredy posted my opinion on the other thread.... Square-Enix is just fucking that reputation they had at the FFX Stage.... the FF7 compilation was the bigening of the end to me.. its the money now, exploring the fans for every last bit of trust/hope we still have in them.

[Passion]

i oredy posted my opinion on the other thread.... Square-Enix is just fucking that reputation they had at the FFX Stage.... the FF7 compilation was the bigening of the end to me.. its the money now, exploring the fans for every last bit of trust/hope we still have in them.

They're an organisation, a company. They have to make money to keep going.

Some people's views here seem abit odd. I mean yeah I think it's weird and abit shallow that they've now decided to branch out from Playstation but at the same time it's not like they're forcing you to buy two of the same game are they. They're just offering people with a 360 the chance to play the game if they like. It might flop on the 360, who knows - who cares? Why are people worrying. They would've bought the game anyway so it's not like it's made a difference.

With how much devotion's being put into this game and from what we've seen already it's not exactly like they're just using it to rake money in. FFXIII and VXIII look to be fucking fantastic!

[Thimien]

They're an organisation, a company. They have to make money to keep going.

Some people's views here seem abit odd. I mean yeah I think it's weird and abit shallow that they've now decided to branch out from Playstation but at the same time it's not like they're forcing you to buy two of the same game are they. They're just offering people with a 360 the chance to play the game if they like. It might flop on the 360, who knows - who cares? Why are people worrying. They would've bought the game anyway so it's not like it's made a difference.

With how much devotion's being put into this game and from what we've seen already it's not exactly like they're just using it to rake money in. FFXIII and VXIII look to be fucking fantastic!


As a company i totaly agree with you, just they use to stick by the fans side, i dont think it will flop on 360, since most of them use to play ff on ps1 and ps2, but with the hurry to buy a next Gen decided to get the 360.
My main concern, and im no computer genius, is about the quality i was expecting on the FF13 exclusive, we have been waiting for this for long, just to be f.ed up the asshole... lol

Sorry if i have mentioned this on another thread.

[Desi]

Square-Soft has gone downhill ever since they merged with Enix. After Final Fantasy X was released soon later Square merged and Is it just me or have most games been average or very poor? For example Final Fantasy XI was a flop in my opinion and Final Fantasy XII was terrible compared to Final Fantasy X. Now we find out that Final Fantasy XIII isn't a PS3 exclusive and is going to the 360. Whats wrong with Square? Do you guys feel the same way?

They have been going downhill since the started working with Sony. Chrono Cross? Fuck that shit. FFVIII? Huh. The Bouncer....

When it comes down to it. Your opinion means shit. FFXI isn't a flop, it rings in more money than all FF's (at least 6million a month). They develop the same amount of great/good/shit titles they always have. Even this year they released a great new IP The World Ends with You for the DS. Magical game. Publishing great tri-ace titles like Star ocean and Valkyrie Profile. Stop acting like a bitch.

[Flint]

Even this year they released a great new IP The World Ends with You for the DS. Magical game.

The World Ends with You is absolutely my favourite game of recent times of any console - one of Square's best games ever. Really, everyone should give it a try, it's an RPG that is like no other and has a huge amount of great new ideas.

I'm also really looking forward to Sigma Harmonics, Nanashi no Game and Valkyrie Profile DS (and the various DS remakes/ports like Chrono Trigger etc).

FFXIII still looks great, and while I'm not so excited about Last Remnant or Infinite Undiscovery I'm pretty interested in seeing how Star Ocean Last Hope turns out.

So as far as I'm concerned SE haven't gone downhill at all, they've got plenty of games coming out across all the various machines so most fans must surely be able to find something they like?

[Thimien]

The World Ends with You is absolutely my favourite game of recent times of any console - one of Square's best games ever. Really, everyone should give it a try, it's an RPG that is like no other and has a huge amount of great new ideas.

I'm also really looking forward to Sigma Harmonics, Nanashi no Game and Valkyrie Profile DS (and the various DS remakes/ports like Chrono Trigger etc).

FFXIII still looks great, and while I'm not so excited about Last Remnant or Infinite Undiscovery I'm pretty interested in seeing how Star Ocean Last Hope turns out.

So as far as I'm concerned SE haven't gone downhill at all, they've got plenty of games coming out across all the various machines so most fans must surely be able to find something they like?


well downhill in quality i think they have, plus "i think" some of the new titles you mentioned are exclusives for Xbox360... something tells me PS3 and Square have fallen out with eachother.
360 and the millions behind it, that is not what makes a good console, with the constant injection of money they have to keep that console going, they probably waved alot of zeros in front of Square-enix's eyes balls to get what they want.
After all a console looks good when certain companies start releasing games on to it.

[Flint]

well downhill in quality i think they have, plus "i think" some of the new titles you mentioned are exclusives for Xbox360...


Of the games I mentioned, The World Ends with You, Sigma Harmonics, Nanashi no Game and Valkyrie Profile are all DS games.

The Last Remnant is on PS3 and 360, Star Ocean hasn't been fully confirmed as a 360 exclusive (it's still a 'possibility' for PS3 apparantly). Infinite Undiscovery is the only one that seems to be 360 exclusive but there's really no reason why that can't go to PS3 at some point, considering that stranger things have happened - like FFXIII being ported to 360 for example.

I just can't stand this faulty logic that some people have that just because Square are making games for machines they don't personally own that must mean that the company is going "downhill".

You may not like 360, but that doesn't preclude Square from being able to make good games for it.

I swear most of the complaints always come from the same people that thought FFXII was crap just because it didn't have the usual sub-anime story and tween romance aspect.

[AT23]

Any person who thinks merge of Squaresoft and Enix is bad: Moron.

Any person who shows a dislike towards a company because of console affiliation: Moron.

Any person who thinks FFXI is a flop: Moron.

Any person who doesn't know how a business works and doesn't see that in order to make things like video games it costs money and to figure out ways to fund money for these projects: Moron.

[foXhound494]

When it comes down to it. Your opinion means shit. FFXI isn't a flop, it rings in more money than all FF's (at least 6million a month).

The game may have not been a flop from how much money it makes although the actual game is shit.

------------------

AT23 (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/member.php?u=841) < Gay

[Pain Clone]

Guys its like u wont to start an arguement, whats the big deal with ffxiii going to 360? more people will buy the game and generate more profit for SE. also just cause the newer games werent as good as ffX doesn't mean their going downhill, yeah ffxii wasn't that good but they tried somthing new and they will learn from their mistakes.

I think ffxiii is going to be their best move yet, and the storys look like their going to be good from what iv seen so far.

[-Tidus4]

i don't think he ment Square is going down hill just because FF13 is going multi-platform, i think he ment that FF is going downhill. I have to agree i loved FF7,8,9 and 10, then i was waiting so long for FFx-2 and when it came out first day i practically got to 30% and i hated it. eventually finished it and it sucked. then i moved on to FF12 and i thought while i had fun it didn't give me that excitement that i had for the other FF games. right now i'm playing FFx, Xenogears and FF7 again. I don't like where FF13 is going because i simply don't like FF going futuristic, with Star wars like music, Guns and shit like that but however i'm still going to play and probably enjoy it. Anyway my money is on FFvs13.

[Fenryr]

FFXI was not a flop money-wise or play-wise. I've played it, and even if it was only for a very short amount of time I still enjoyed it. If you have friends to play it with it's obviously far more enjoyable than without, but regardless it appeals to different people.

Bringing me to my other point, each Final Fantasy will without a doubt appeal to different people. One might not like the futuristic themes of a Final Fantasy and dislike it due to this (which is evident from above). And one might not like the slightly older timeline of a Final Fantasy. Regardless, Final Fantasy has the ability to make up whatever storyline it so wishes with each new title. The company hasn't gone downhill, it's games might not appeal to everyone but they certainly still appeal to millions. I loved Final Fantasy 12, I played it through with company and were both of the opinion that it was a memorable game.

Cutting this bollocks short, still love the company, not dissapointed at all.

[-Tidus4]

well said Fenryr i think you're right. everyone has different tastes so lets leave it at that.

[Monkey]

Square-Soft has gone downhill ever since they merged with Enix. After Final Fantasy X was released soon later Square merged and Is it just me or have most games been average or very poor? For example Final Fantasy XI was a flop in my opinion and Final Fantasy XII was terrible compared to Final Fantasy X. Now we find out that Final Fantasy XIII isn't a PS3 exclusive and is going to the 360. Whats wrong with Square? Do you guys feel the same way?

I want Square-Soft back!

You do realize you sound completely uneducated saying that? Square's changing had nothing to do with the merger. The best part? All the Enix fans complain about how Enix has gotten all crappy because of Square. :lol:

[Oli-Z]

FFIX was the last good game they made. They've lost sight of everything that made them what they are.

[Silmaure]

I'm with Fenryr on this.

I loved FFXI, more than WoW, UO, Runescape, etc. It just needed instances.

Just because FFXII wasn't great story-wise in some people minds, or it diverted from what you thought made a great FF game, doesn't mean they suddenly became the shittiest company, it's one game. They tried to depart from the original outline and maybe took a few unpleasant detours for you, but it was their first attempt at something like that with the FF franchise. I loved FFXII!

As far as FFXIII goes it is too early to say. We'll have to wait for its release and the release of the future games to really see where they are going.

:D

[L]

Square-Soft has gone downhill ever since they merged with Enix.

Concur.

Any person who thinks merge of Squaresoft and Enix is bad: Moron.

Any person who shows a dislike towards a company because of console affiliation: Moron.

Any person who thinks FFXI is a flop: Moron.

Any person who doesn't know how a business works and doesn't see that in order to make things like video games it costs money and to figure out ways to fund money for these projects: Moron.

Wow, that was really offensive.

I'd have to disagree with the first statement, though. It's good for them, but I can't say the same for us.

------------------AT23 (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/member.php?u=841) < Gay

lol

I think ffxiii is going to be their best move yet, and the storys look like their going to be good from what iv seen so far.

If Final Fantasy XIII is better than Final Fantasy VI, IX, X, or VIII, I will shit bricks. :ohmy:

i don't think he ment Square is going down hill just because FF13 is going multi-platform, i think he ment that FF is going downhill.

Not just FF, but everything they shit out, really. Drakengard was a horribly mediocre series with shit gameplay.

[aldo]

Jesus Christ, the gameplay for Drakengard made my penis diminish an inch.

[L]

inoerite?

Drakengard 2 pissed me off. I replayed that game liek, three times so I could get some gay orb that does nothing but give that Nowe fag his gay wing things but doesn't make him fly. =[

Drakengard pissed me off with gay secret ending that allows you to use a jet on missions and shit after you beat this part of the game, lol. I played some gay little minigame with statues for two hours just to watch some faggots fire missles at Caim and Angelus.

dey wuz burnt to crispz and angelus landed on a skyscraper with one of those gay little long pointy things at the top of it. xD

the story was hardly interesting, though. Seems all SE has going for them is their graphics, since that's what attracted me to play the game. D:

[Temujin07]

With the exception of Final Fantasy XI all games created by Square Enix were great with me. Everyone has their own opinion, some people say that SE has lost its creativeness. I personally think Final Fantasy XIII is gonna be one of their best. A lot of people say Final Fantasy XII wasn't that good. I personally like the game although I admit Final Fantasy X was their best for PS2. Now everyone thinks that FFXIII is gonna suck because its going to Xbox 360. Wrong, if anything I believe its gonna be one of their best. But thats my own personal opinion. All of the Final Fantasy titles were great with the exception of FFXI but that one really doesn't count since its was an MMO and not a single player RPG like the others.

[Desi]

Of course Drakengard was bad. Anyone that thinks otherwise has a horrible incest-cannibalism-animal love fetish. Square nor Enix made that game they just put money in it/published it. Why else would you see Ubisoft on the box of Drakengard 2.

Good things were the twisted main cast and some of the big drawings the character designer did.

[Sundance Kid]

They have been going downhill since the started working with Sony. Chrono Cross? Fuck that shit. FFVIII? Huh. The Bouncer....

When it comes down to it. Your opinion means shit. FFXI isn't a flop, it rings in more money than all FF's (at least 6million a month). They develop the same amount of great/good/shit titles they always have. Even this year they released a great new IP The World Ends with You for the DS. Magical game. Publishing great tri-ace titles like Star ocean and Valkyrie Profile. Stop acting like a bitch.
haha The Bouncer, I didnt care for that game

I love Valkyrie Profile, it's a challenge and I like a challenge. I have only played the first Star Ocean and liked it. I don't think Square is going down hill, why not take a look at these other gaming companies? It's money and business, theyre just doin what they can to get the funds to make better games is all, they aren't going down hill. I mean just like what Desi said, XI made a grip of money and Square has released quite a few games as is, but that still takes ideas for more money and ideas. You REALLY think that Square is doing this just to be mean? No theyre not.

[IBeatMyMeat]

Everyone loves saying that FFXI doesnt count because it wasnt single player....Yet compared to.....8....9....10....X-2....12....was the only one in that spread that stuck to the same previous FF pythos, unless if im not remembering the crystal theme in 9(been while since playing it). Ppl just shun XI because they either couldnt stomach having to be a noob at a online game, or just didnt have the time to sit and dedicate to it. Which is understandable since a casual gamer cant dedicate the time to it. As said earlier, each game appeals to a certain portion of the FF fanbase. XII was a loved game by almost all FFXI players. The reason? Because the combat system was remisant of XI with the free moving non-random encounters. Also the leveling system and such from each game changes ever so slightly. In my opinion SE hasnt been dropping its standards, they are more or less exploring the fans reactions to games. They want to know what people like, what they dont like, and improve or remove what parts are needed. Saying that certain games are utter crap means nothing when thats YOUR opinion. Your alloted that much, but it certainly isnt a generalized thought from all FF fans. Square-Soft/Enix has been making great games for decades, and will continue to make great games for many MANY years to come, no matter what console or franchise it happens to be.

[wohdin]

I've not read the thread, just so you know. I'm just gonna throw my opinion on the topic out there.



Although the merger may have caused them to lose focus on their biggest assets for a little while, I don't think it caused them to crash or even swerve. I never really saw much of a drop in quality per se, but FFXI was a huge disappointment to me, only because it was "online". (For the record, I'm one of the many that feel XI should have not been a part of the main line of the FF series, and my reason is my reason, nothing more. I think it would have been more successful if it were developed by a totally different team and were considered a spinoff, but whatever.) I thought XII was amazing in almost every aspect, especially for an Ivalician title, and really helped establish that world for future titles. I still don't understand why I'm in the minority here, because I loved the gameplay and the story, and I hold no bitterness at all toward SE for changing it up, because IMO it was a long-due change to the recycled battle systems of Ye Olde Console RPGs. I expect XIII to follow this innovative trend, and even though it seems to me like they're taking a step backwards, they're doing it to embark on yet another untrodden trail that has been made open by the White Engine.

I think the merger with Enix really gave them room for ventures more courageous, creating new franchises, trying new elements and new forays of the gaming world, which really helped them grow as a dev/pub. We've seen amazing new things from them - KH, TWEWY, the budding FFTA series (which I think surpasses the original FFT in gameplay - Calculators broke that game way too badly) - do you think Square could have done all of this on their own? Dragon Quest wasn't the only thing they got from Enix, you know. They got a slew of talented people who, without their help, SE would be nowhere close to where it is today. (But that's just my opinion.)

To those who say that Square-Enix sucks "because of Enix" or think that "they've lost their way", (or especially to those who think "FFXII RUINED MY LIFE AND S-E SHOULD DIAF FOR EVER MAKING SUCH A HORRIBLE GAME" because if you say such things then I must immediately assume that you were too STUPID to understand the game, especially if you hated it and thought 7 was better, WTF) I would say - Square is still Square, but with a little bit of Enix for taste, and the same is true of the latter. Give them some slack, and some time. I feel that even now, they're a growing company, and if we back them with our green, they will supply us with their gold. Every game developer travels a bumpy road, and who wouldn't, with fans like us riding them all the time?

[Zeroedged]

I kind of read the thread... I usually stop reading once people start annoying each other XD. In my opinion they aren't going any more downhill than they ever have. If people don't like what their doing then that just effects them. As a company they aren't doing anything wrong. Just trying to make lots of money and games they like. Games coming out or porting to the 360 isn't a big deal it was bound to happen (they wants the moneys) plus it's not like these are the first games to come out on the 360. The world ends with you is an excellent game. FFXII was ok, but it is different than the rest of them, I look at it as them experimenting a little. You can't really say they're going down hill till they just die or everyone hates them. Obviously people still like them.

Although I do have to say FNC is the first time in forever I've actually been excited enough to pay attention to them.

Oh yeah and about the whole FFXIII getting ported seriously get over it. If A huge company came up to you and said "hey we want to buy your new game for some big load of money!" and you we're a company that makes quite a few games and you needed money you'd be like "hell yeah!"

[Josh]

I haven't read the entire thread either, but from what I can gather it seems like you're pissed off about Final Fantasy XIII going multi-platform.

I honestly don't believe that Square Enix are going downhill, though I do believe that the Final Fantasy series is going downhill. Final Fantasy X was the title that really got me into the Final Fantasy series, though I had played other FF games; just not main series titles - due to this, it's the elements in Final Fantasy X that make a decent Final Fantasy title in my eyes.

The majority of titles up to Final Fantasy X shared these elements, with turn-based battle systems (though some not as slow as Final Fantasy X's, with an active time battle system) and deep characters and meaningful storylines. To me, that's what makes a Final Fantasy title - and over the past five or so years I really do think that Square Enix have moved too far away from that mould with the Final Fantasy series.

Take Final Fantasy XII for example, we all know that the game isn't anything like Final Fantasy X. Especially in terms of the battle system, though I could get used to it - it just wasn't ideal. My major bug with Final Fantasy XII was it's lack of character depth, something that really dragged me into the previous titles; and because it wasn't there - I wasn't a fan of the game.

My major problem is with Final Fantasy sequels, Final Fantasy X-2 was the first main series sequel; and I can understand that it was an experiment on Square Enix's part - but it was a bad one at that. I really didn't like Final Fantasy X-2, in my opinion it destroyed Final Fantasy X's universe; tarnishing the prequel. Furthermore, expansions in the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII haven't really been up to standard. Advent Children was a good film, but was it really needed? It seemed like a pointless addition expansion of Final Fantasy VII, I mean what really happened in that film?

On the other hand, if a Final Fantasy "core" title expansion is pulled off well; it can end up been a great game - as with the PSP's Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII.

Earlier in the post I said that I believe that it's Final Fantasy that's going downhill and not Square Enix, and by that I mean that Square Enix are still pumping out some promising titles that aren't Final Fantasy related - take The World Ends With You for example, it's one of the most fun, innovative games that I've ever played. When Square Enix make titles like TWEWY, it's impossible to say that they're losing their way.

(I'm very tired, sorry if that didn't make too much sence! :P)

[Thimien]

I haven't read the entire thread either, but from what I can gather it seems like you're pissed off about Final Fantasy XIII going multi-platform.

I honestly don't believe that Square Enix are going downhill, though I do believe that the Final Fantasy series is going downhill. Final Fantasy X was the title that really got me into the Final Fantasy series, though I had played other FF games; just not main series titles - due to this, it's the elements in Final Fantasy X that make a decent Final Fantasy title in my eyes.

The majority of titles up to Final Fantasy X shared these elements, with turn-based battle systems (though some not as slow as Final Fantasy X's, with an active time battle system) and deep characters and meaningful storylines. To me, that's what makes a Final Fantasy title - and over the past five or so years I really do think that Square Enix have moved too far away from that mould with the Final Fantasy series. I just hate when Square makes changes to something that is good... previous FF games were good, so you can sort of update it, but dont change the whole thing ><

Take Final Fantasy XII for example, we all know that the game isn't anything like Final Fantasy X. Especially in terms of the battle system, though I could get used to it - it just wasn't ideal. My major bug with Final Fantasy XII was it's lack of character depth, something that really dragged me into the previous titles; and because it wasn't there - I wasn't a fan of the game.

My major problem is with Final Fantasy sequels, Final Fantasy X-2 was the first main series sequel; and I can understand that it was an experiment on Square Enix's part - but it was a bad one at that. I really didn't like Final Fantasy X-2, in my opinion it destroyed Final Fantasy X's universe; tarnishing the prequel. Furthermore, expansions in the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII haven't really been up to standard. Advent Children was a good film, but was it really needed? It seemed like a pointless addition expansion of Final Fantasy VII, I mean what really happened in that film?

On the other hand, if a Final Fantasy "core" title expansion is pulled off well; it can end up been a great game - as with the PSP's Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII.

Earlier in the post I said that I believe that it's Final Fantasy that's going downhill and not Square Enix, and by that I mean that Square Enix are still pumping out some promising titles that aren't Final Fantasy related - take The World Ends With You for example, it's one of the most fun, innovative games that I've ever played. When Square Enix make titles like TWEWY, it's impossible to say that they're losing their way.

(I'm very tired, sorry if that didn't make too much sence! :P)

I agree with all this, and il add FF12 is a crap game compared to other FFs, butits playable, the thing that pissed me the most was that stupid licence board, you can complete in no time, after that you can get some fed up weapons, but there aint an ultimate weapon, i miss that. Over all i didnt like it, leave that batle system to FF11 where it belongs.

[Josh]

I agree with all this, and il add FF12 is a crap game compared to other FFs, butits playable, the thing that pissed me the most was that stupid licence board, you can complete in no time, after that you can get some fed up weapons, but there aint an ultimate weapon, i miss that. Over all i didnt like it, leave that batle system to FF11 where it belongs.
I agree with the battle system part, it definitely should've stayed in Final Fantasy XI.

Isn't that Zodiac Spear or whatever an ultimate weapon? I dunno, I got bored of Final Fantasy XII and didn't finish it.

[Thimien]

I agree with the battle system part, it definitely should've stayed in Final Fantasy XI.

Isn't that Zodiac Spear or whatever an ultimate weapon? I dunno, I got bored of Final Fantasy XII and didn't finish it.


Esacly, you just said it lol "Zodia Spear is the Ultimate weapon" how shit is that.
The Ultima Weapon normaly is a Sword.

[Desi]

Now that you mention it, maybe Square did go downhill. Look at their fans! "FUCK ME NOW, SPEARS CAN'T BE POWERFUL EVEN IF THEY WERE USED MORE THAN SWORDS IN WARS BECAUSE SWORDS SUCK ASS EXCEPT FOR ONE ON ONE DUELS. NOW I'M GOING TO BEAT OFF TO MY SISTER LOL"