Story Speculations!

[SimplyMyself]

Well...I guess we all saw the new trailer for FFXIII-2, and I began thinking about it, what it could mean for the story etc.

We all know FFXIII's ending, where Vanille and Fang sacrificed themselves to save Cocoon. Cocoon's crystallized, so the civilians live on Pulse now. In the new trailer, Lightning says that she protects the legacy of Fang and Vanille. Her new armor is more Pulse-like, using animalstuff (feathers) in it. It also has a close resemblance with Odin's armor

The place which is shown might be some shrine dedicated to the sacrifice of Fang and Vanille and Lightning stands guard there in her new fancy armor.

The man...he is a true mystery...He somehow feels kinda Pulse-ish, with his feahery headband. The colors of his suit resemble Fang's summon Bahamut.

So what if...the shown man is a descendant of Fang's tribe, from 500 years ago. They lived sheltered somewhere on Pulse (I don't know if FFXIII said that all Pulse human life was gone or not...) and this tribe, after seeing the catasthropic demise of Cocoon, came out of their shelter and discovered that 2 of their former tribe people where in that shrine.
He could also be a L'Cie. There are still Pulse Fal'Cie, so who knows if that man has some sort of task which involves fighting with Lightning, the guardian of Fang and Vanille!

But well...I haven't thought out a real plot yet, but it was a start!
Anyone else has another view, or has thought of something else?


Ps. I'm somehow disappointed that it's a sequel, I would've loved a prequel about the War of Transgression, but that's just me...

Pps.If they let Fang and Vanille come back in this sequel...I swear to God...then I will never play a Final Fantasy sequel again. FFX's ending was ruined with FFX-2...

[lostwriter87]

Pps.If they let Fang and Vanille come back in this sequel...I swear to God...then I will never play a Final Fantasy sequel again. FFX's ending was ruined with FFX-2...


that would be the whole reason as to why i play the game... or at least that's why i would want it... i want to know what happens to fang and vanille... everyone got to be happy... why can't they live too damnit! lol

and i thought the passage lightning is saying in the trailer referred to Etro... i guess it could be interpreted as that :)

maybe the mysterious guy was sent to destroy the crystal tower that's holding coccon? i dunno... the possibilities are endless for the plot, especially with the trailer being so short...

but speculating is fun :P

[Riviera_Lightning]

LEts just have Lightning that dude and that's it..start a story involving them, some sort of prequel. I just don't want it to be over populated with crappy chracters like X-2.

[mokaloka]

LEts just have Lightning that dude and that's it..start a story involving them, some sort of prequel. I just don't want it to be over populated with crappy chracters like X-2.:blink:That wouldn't make any sense.

[Riviera_Lightning]

:blink:That wouldn't make any sense.

Welcome to the world of FFXIII.

[Hyacith]

Per the epilogue known as Episode I featured with the xbox 360 international release of ffxiii, I think we are to assume that Lightning is in the invisible world where Etro among other deities reside.
She is to protect Etro's legacy which is likely to guard the posterity of humans now living on Pulse following the fall of coccoon.
Episode I ends with her arriving to a place that appears devoid of life where the passage of time is very hazy as if months to years seem to pass in just an instant. Also once Serah notices Lightning is missing, she too alludes to a bad premonition and sense of some distortion of space and time the moment her sister apparently vanishes.

I think this may suggest that we may see two parallel universes featuring very different timelines in the sequel; the visible world where the characters from ffxiii living on pulse reside and the invisible world where Lighting, the gods, and the mysterious male featured in the trailer exist. Time will likely be accelerated relative to normal in the latter in comparison to the former; maybe once Lightning succeeds in guarding Etro's legacy and she is returned to her original world, it may appear as if she's vanished for months or even years. Or it could be the opposite extreme, maybe what felt like months to Lightning will be just moments in the visible world of Pulse.
I personally think it would be cool if Lightning vanishes only to return years later to find her friends and family 5 years or so older than her.
Meanwhile, I would be very interested in seeing how events on pulse unfold in this time; I look forward to the reveal of more characters, both old and new, to be featured in the game.

[ac130]

Lightning will have conflict with the purple haired man.
The will eventually fall in love.
They get married.
And have kids.

[Lady_gaga]

@hayacith

I think it is the most reasonable theory, in the trailer lighting said she is in a another realm, another world, which explain the cultural change from futuristic to an instant more fantasy related theme.

Also do you know where I can find a translation of episode I? The game only sold like 11k in japan so I assume not many people knows about it..

[NotitsMan]

I'm hoping that despite the fact that Lightning (and presumably any other parts members, if there are any) are no longer l'Cie, we'll still see some involvement from the fal'Cie and Eidolons. Especially the Eidolons, for me. They were pretty useless in XIII, I will admit, but there's a cool factor behind summoning that I just can't get over. Either way, it seems that she's slipped into the world of the gods, or something to that effect? Perhaps she's in the world where Eidolons, fal'Cie and magic originate from.

[Mike]

I'm hoping that despite the fact that Lightning (and presumably any other parts members, if there are any) are no longer l'Cie, we'll still see some involvement from the fal'Cie and Eidolons. Especially the Eidolons, for me. They were pretty useless in XIII, I will admit, but there's a cool factor behind summoning that I just can't get over. Either way, it seems that she's slipped into the world of the gods, or something to that effect? Perhaps she's in the world where Eidolons, fal'Cie and magic originate from.

I'm pretty sure that the fal'Cie and Eidolons will still be involved. Isn't that the big thing about the FNC compilation? That they're all tied by the fal'Cie and other common mythos, at the very least?

That and it's a sequel. I mean, why wouldn't they? :aldo: It might just be in a different way to that of which we've seen in the past, what with Cocoon being a big crystal in the sky now.

[Hyacith]

@hayacith

I think it is the most reasonable theory, in the trailer lighting said she is in a another realm, another world, which explain the cultural change from futuristic to an instant more fantasy related theme.

Also do you know where I can find a translation of episode I? The game only sold like 11k in japan so I assume not many people knows about it..

Episode I:
http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.com/2010/12/final-fantasy-xiii-episode-i.html

Also translation of portion of the 1/18/11 presentation regarding the deities of the crystal legend:
http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.com/2011/01/fabula-nova-crystallis-mythology.html

[.simon]

I read a really interesting summary/speculation about FFXIII-2 and FNC in general in another forum. I asked permission to post it (and translate it) here because it seemed logic and raised good questions, but I'm still waiting for an answer.

Lightning and purple guy could still become l'Cie again, but it'd seem useless and repetitive. It's clear they were planning a sequel while making FFXIII, so why would they "free" her in FFXIII's ending and then make her a l'Cie again in the sequel? I hope they'll come up with a new way to involve summons.

[Mike]

Actually, in a way, this is looking more and more like another X-2 to me. XIII ended pretty much in a way that rules out summons for the player's party (barring other specific circumstances), so maybe they'll go without them this time. Though this would mean magic is unusable as well, and without relying on Manadrives, they'd have to really think about how to actually make magic work again.

If she is in a new dimension or world or some stuff like that, I guess they could really do anything to make it work though.

[.simon]

Maybe Etro gave them some special power? You'd think she'd be grateful someone is trying to protect her...

[Musou]

Actually, in a way, this is looking more and more like another X-2 to me. XIII ended pretty much in a way that rules out summons for the player's party (barring other specific circumstances), so maybe they'll go without them this time. Though this would mean magic is unusable as well, and without relying on Manadrives, they'd have to really think about how to actually make magic work again.

If she is in a new dimension or world or some stuff like that, I guess they could really do anything to make it work though.

Hm I dont think ruling out magic would be right thing to do when she can summon her sword Versus style in her hand.

[ProjectedLight]

To be honest, the shit that interested me most in FFXIII's story was the domestic stuff. I liked seeing Lightning washing the dishes and viewing the sexy holographic tv from her kitchen. it'd be cool, but unlikely, if they just situate gamers inside that world in a very casual, mundane way. Allow you to run around and see what it's like to exist in that world post-focus, post-l'cie, post-calamities. I wanna see the chocobo leg that snow and serah had for dinner the night before get moldy in the fridge. ^_^

But being realistic, I expect lots of angst, lots of melodrama, lots of close ups, and lots of pianos and soft strings to accompany it.

***Another idea... Since Fang and Vanille saved the world, wouldn't they kinda become enshrined and worshipped as gods ala Jesus, Muhammad, and the rest of the gang etc etc?

[NotitsMan]

Maybe Etro gave them some special power? You'd think she'd be grateful someone is trying to protect her...

This seems really reasonable to me. It's obvious that Lightning has found power somewhere. That was made very evident in the trailer with the magically summoned weapon. She's also seen kneeling before an altar at the very beginning, so I think you're probably on to something.

[Arianna]

I wonder if at the end of the story, Etro will send Lightning back to Gran Pulse and somehow she will find that Vanille and Fang are released from crystal stasis.

[Musou]

Lol here's a thought for the ending: Lightning becomes a Fal'cie and takes Etro's place. wat.

[Arianna]

Lol here's a thought for the ending: Lightning becomes a Fal'cie and takes Etro's place. wat.


What's so funny? :blink:

Seriously, I do wonder if that's what is going to happen.

[Lymle]

I really hope we are all wrong.

You know Square has lost all their originality when fans already know how a game is going to end. :aldo:

[Ethan]

Lol here's a thought for the ending: Lightning becomes a Fal'cie and takes Etro's place. wat.

The end. We might as well not play the game now.

[Jay_Z]

Lightning and this other guy are eidolons.

[Chat Noir]

Ok, this sounds impossible but what if there were other Cocoons elsewhere? Maybe the purple dude was from that place and has been summoned the same way as Light was summoned in the invisible world.

[Moklin]

Maybe not every people from Pulse died. Maybe a few of them hide and now that Coccon´s habitants want to live in Pulse, this small group of survivors wants to get rid of them. Purple guy is their boss.

[day // b r e a k]

Maybe not every people from Pulse died. Maybe a few of them hide and now that Coccon´s habitants want to live in Pulse, this small group of survivors wants to get rid of them. Purple guy is their boss.

That's a good idea :nod:

[.simon]

As I was saying yesterday, I read this theory on a Italian forum. I asked the guy and he gave me permission to translate it and post it here. This (http://www.rinoadiary.it/rdforum/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=12798) is the original thread, all credits go to him. I'll try to be as accurate as I can in the translation; it's quite long and my English is not perfect.

It's basically a summary of all the information we have on the FNC myth, which brings up some interesting quetions, followed by his deductions. I'll be quoting the FNC trailer that just came out a lot. It's here (http://finalfantasy-xiii.net/forums/showpost.php?p=330731&postcount=100) if you want to read it. There are also references to FFXIII's plot (obviously), FFWikia (English and Italian) and the Analects.


Muin
Questions:
-Did Muin create the world or did it already exist?
-What does it mean that [being swallowed into the chaos of the invisible world]keeps her from saving the world from its destiny?
-What exactly is the chaos?

Hypothesis:
In his opinion the world existed before Muin/she didn't create it: the goddess seems to be live by the laws of the world she would have created (she's trapped in the chaos of the invisible world). Not even Buniberzei, though in control of the world, can't escape those laws, as he's not able to find or go through the door between the visible and the invisible world.

With that in mind, he believes chaos is to be interpreted as the state before the creation something undefinable and different from the "organized" and intelligible (visible) state of existance. This dichotomy is the difference between the invisible world (all that is in an "uncreated" state) and the visible world (what's been created), so it's something totally indipendent from the goddess, who could only be in one of these worlds. That means Muin probably created what's in the visible world (and was its master) because she existed.

"Being swallowed in the chaos of the invisible world that kept her from saving the world from its fate" is then probably just a oracular way of saying Muin can't interact with the visible world, as she's now part of the invisible world, which (it should be clearer to those who played FFXIII) simply means she's dead. It becomes clear in the ending of the 13th chapter (of FFXIII) that the Door of Souls searched by the fal'Cie is the door to the world of the dead, since they want to open it by sacrificing Cocoon's population. [Buniberzei defeated his mother] simply means he killed her.

Buniberzei

Questions:
-Is the time that Buniberzei awaits the end of the world or the door's finding?

Hypothesis:
-He thinks the second one, otherwise ruling the world wouldn't make much sense.

The Arks

They seem to be ships holding weapons for an ancient fight (as well as boot camp for l'Cies, who are human weapons, as Dysley says in FFXIII). Consider now this analect:
X. The Menace Beyond
They say the fal'Cie made the Arks in preparation for battle against the menace that lurks beyond. Where is this "beyond" of which they speak? Do they mean Cocoon, and the demons that dwells within? If so, they are mistaken. The legends of the Arks date far before that sphere was even crafted; whispers even hint at Arks displaced around the time of Cocoon's creation, spirited away to be hidden in its shell.
What, then, is the "menace"? What distant threat confronts us, and to what purpose? The gods vanished from this place. Are they now residents of the "beyond"?
-- On the Nature of Fal'CieThe Arks were then built to fight against Muin in the "beyond", that is the other side of the Door of Souls, the invisible world. The distant threat therefore is Muin and not Cocoon: in fact, even there we find an Ark, as a testimony that Cocoon's fal'Cies, though considered enemies from Pulse, existed for the same purpose, given by their creator Buniberzei.

Pulse

Questions:
-Why did Pulse leave Gran Pulse? Where did it go? Through the door?
-Why, after Pulse's departure, did civil wars break out and the fal'Cie started creating l'Cies with unclear focuses, until the extinction of mankind?

This is the analect he's talking about
VI. The Age of Ruin
The fal'Cie of Hallowed Pulse offer us no salvation. Populations dwindle, and still they but make more of us l'Cie, dealing out one incomprehensible Focus after the next as they drive us toward our end.
Men take up arms against their brothers now. We, who should be joining hands to survive in the face of nature's trials, turn on one another to secure what few of her blessings remain.
I suspect that even the city of Paddra, this last bastion of civilization, will not long stand against the evils we now perpetrate. Human life on Gran Pulse has passed the point of no return.
-- Criticisms of a Pulsian People

Etro

Questions:
-Where is Etro now? If she's on the other side of the Door of Souls why can she still interact with the visible world, as opposed to her "grandmother" Muin? (gives chaos to men, stops Ragnarock, seems to be present in FFVXIII)
-How does this [The humans lived on the world, hold chaos inside them. / Because they held chaos so close, the world once again was in balance.] work?
-Was it really Etro who stopped the War of Transgression? (The Analects are written by the Pulsians' POV, which is partial, so they may not be 100% true)

Hypothesis:
Keeping in mind that the invisible world is the chaos, which is also the world of the dead, Etro is clearly gone. The terms of her departure from the visible world are clear (Etro tore at her body, letting her blood flow to the earth, and disappeared from the visible world.): Etro killed herself and reached the world of the dead, where she was able to made contact with her mother. Being linked to that world, she then became known as the goddess of Death. These 2 analects would prove this theory:
XIII. Fabula Nova Crystallis
When the twilight of the gods at last descends upon this world, what emerges from the unseeable expanse beyond that Door will be but music, and that devoid of words: the lamentations of the Goddess Etro, as She sobs Her song of grief.
IX. Her Providence
Her Providence sought nothing. Her Providence made nothing. She but looked on, silent in Her sorrow.
The Goddess pitied mortals, destined as they were to die, and so She deigned to intervene in the hour of their greatest peril. She averted cataclysm that was to be, and put to rest the ones who would have robbed so many of what time fate had ordainedHe can't explain why Etro can interact with the visible world while Muin can't.

Lindzei:

Questions:
-Why did Lindzei create Cocoon? And why did she leave it in the fal'Cies' hands?
-Why do Pulsians call her devil, viper and so on (see analects) and consider Pulse the spring of all evils, while in the newest trailer he's described as a protector?
-Is creating Cocoon related to her task of protecting Buniberzei, her willingness of protecting the world, or to the taks of waking the father?

Hypothesis:
First of all Lindzei's figure helps us understand why Cocoon's fal'Cie couldn't destroy the plante: fal'Cies are very similar to machines and must perform the task assigned to them; since [Lindzai wished to protect the world, so he created many fal’Cie and l’Cie] they clearly couldn't, as they were programmed to do the exact opposite.

Maybe Lindzei was seen as the devil from Pulsians because it looked as if she was taking away humans when mankind was extinguishing. If that's true, we can presume Lindzei's intentions were good: she actually wanted to protect mandkind from extinction by taking theme into an artificial heaven, run by the fal'Cie. That's until she mysteriously disappeared...

He thinks Lindzei is a woman because of the statues in Orphan's Cradle, and the part of it that looks like a woman should be how Dysley imagines her (according to FFWiki). In addition to that, she was created right after Etro, kind of like a "second shot".

The Maker

Questions:
-Is the Maker Pulse?
-Where did it go?
-Why do the fal'Cies think it's on the other side of the Door of Souls?

Hypothesis:
According to the Analects, the Maker IS Pulse.
VII. Hallowed Pulse
It was the Great and Hallowed Pulse who, seeking to expand divine domain, parted the chaos and fashioned realm within; made fal'Cie, and charged them with this world's completion.
The fal'Cie, anxious to please the hand that shaped them, labored devotedly at the task they had been given. They made l'Cie of men so that they, too, might be able to aid the greater cause. Men, in turn, offered praise and prayer to Hallowed Pulse, naming their great land in honor of its architect.
Yet still the architect departed.
-- On the Nature of Fal'CieHe thinks this is a mistake (that means, the Pulsians are wrong), because this lead to some contradictions.
1. Accoring to the FNC trailer, humans were born from Etro's blood and were not created by Pulse, as the analects say.
2.Cocoon's fal'Cies want to call the Maker back, since they became orphans, but they were left by Lindzei, who is their maker, as the analects say:
VIII. Fell Lindzei
As our fal'Cie are the children of Hallowed Pulse, so are the fal'Cie who lurk within Cocoon the brood of Lindzei.
But all gods are not alike.
Lindzei is cunning and false; sovereign to snakes and fiends; an anathema to be abhorred.
Cocoon fal'Cie are of Fell Lindzei's line, yet that did not spare them. They were betrayed all the same; left orphans when their Succubus fled this earthly realm.He then gives his interpretation. Based on the fact the the analects were written by the Puslians' POV, which is biased, we could imagine that they identified the fal'Cie Pulse with God (FFWikia says in the japanese version the Maker is called God) because he seemed almighty (Gran Pulse's fal'Cie obeyed to him) and good to humans: actually, tha taks Pulse gave to the fal'Cies was to explore the world and look for the Door of Souls (as ordered to Pulse by Buniberzei). While digging, they created (as a secondary effect) livable areas that they gave to the Pulsians.
The author of these analects (he thinks he wrote both of them because the signature is the same) has come to the same conclusion:
XI. Hypothesis of the Hunt
We've long held the goal of the fal'Cie's endless excavations to be the expansion of the world's inhabitable space-the creation of new lands with which to honor the gods. But I contend this to be false. Their methods lack the order one would expect if that were their purpose, and what's more, the gods they would honor have long since departed this world.
I propose a different explanation: the fal'Cie are hunting. Whether they seek a way to recall the gods or to journey to their side I cannot say, but I do believe the fal'Cie seek their lost deities. They search the earth, the skies, the waters, and even the deep places, seeking a gateway to the Divine.
-- On the Nature of Fal'Cie
XII. The Door of Souls
When our earthly vessels meet their end, the souls they housed must leave this world. Would the path of their migration not be the same one as our departed gods? Must they not pass through the same doorway the Divine employed to reach that place that lies beyond?
If this is the case, it stands to reason that, should a great many lives at once be cut short, a flood of souls would surge through the aforementioned portal. The Door would be thrown wide, and perhaps we might even glimpse the gleaming light of Divinity beyond.
-- On the Nature of Fal'CieAt this point, what's left to understand is who the Maker really is and if Cocoon and Gran Pulse's fal'Cies wanted to bring back the same god. From the first analect, which, being the first, is indeed relevant and written in a different style (suggesting a different origin), we can read:
I. The Vanished Gods
...
Fool desired naught,
and soon was made one with it.
Maker forged fal'Cie,
from fragments Maker's own.
Maker forged Man,
from traces once Divine.
In time the gods departed,
leaving all by their hands wrought.
Fal'Cie were as Man forsaken,
orphans of Maker absconded.
–Author unknownThere are references to the tragic end the world is awaiting, the creation of fal'Cie from fal'Cies, of humans from divine traces (Etro) - that is, the story of Buniberzei. Buniberzei is pheraps the only one we can rightly call Maker (or God) and this identification deletes the first discrepancies above. In addition to that, like in many other FF, the first principle of the world is a crystal, which is Buniberzei, asleep (hence Fabula Nova Crystallis).




There is one last speculation that he calls "far-fetched". I can't be arsed to translate it right now, but I'll probably do it tomorrow.

[Moklin]

wtf? Are we still talking about FFXIII? Sometimes i feel that my copy of the game is different from everyone else. I´ve never heard of this things.

[.simon]

Most of this comes from the FNC trailer, but there are a lot of hints in FFXIII's analects. I think this not only makes sense (most of it anyway), but helps you understand more FFXIII's plot (like why Cocoon's fal'Cies couldn't destroy Cocoon itseld, Dysley said they couldn't but didn't explain why). I liked the fact that he tried to organize and interpret what we know rather than just wild guessing.

The quotes come from the analects you unlock by completing some missions (I don't remember which). If you haven't done all of them probably you've never read them, I don't think Etro and the other gods have ever been mention by any of the characters.

It's more about FNC myth than FFXIII or FFXIII-2, but I didn't want to open another topic for speculations, and it does concern FFXIII and FFXIII-2, so I guessed this place was ok.

[Arianna]

Lindzei:

Questions:
-Why did Lindzei create Cocoon? And why did she leave it in the fal'Cies' hands?
-Why do Pulsians call her devil, viper and so on (see analects) and consider Pulse the spring of all evils, while in the newest trailer he's described as a protector?
-Is creating Cocoon related to her task of protecting Buniberzei, her willingness of protecting the world, or to the taks of waking the father?

Hypothesis:
First of all Lindzei's figure helps us understand why Cocoon's fal'Cie couldn't destroy the plante: fal'Cies are very similar to machines and must perform the task assigned to them; since [Lindzai wished to protect the world, so he created many fal’Cie and l’Cie] they clearly couldn't, as they were programmed to do the exact opposite.

Maybe Lindzei was seen as the devil from Pulsians because it looked as if she was taking away humans when mankind was extinguishing. If that's true, we can presume Lindzei's intentions were good: she actually wanted to protect mandkind from extinction by taking theme into an artificial heaven, run by the fal'Cie. That's until she mysteriously disappeared...

He thinks Lindzei is a woman because of the statues in Orphan's Cradle, and the part of it that looks like a woman should be how Dysley imagines her (according to FFWiki). In addition to that, she was created right after Etro, kind of like a "second shot".

But remember, in the story it said Etro 'thought of her mother, who she so resembled'. In this, I'm wondering if the statues are not of Lindzei at all, but of Muin. Perhaps confusion upon Barthandelus' part? (I still wonder if Barthandelus + Menrva = Orphan = Lindzei, in some part.)

I realize that the Ultimania Omega said that the statues are Barthandelus' vision of Lindzei; but, it's normal for a child to crave attention from the mother or mother figure. Perhaps it was an unconscious thought or wish to be reunited with the mother.

Also, yes, Lindzei was to protect the Buniberzei from those who would seek to destroy him, so his duty was to protect and destroy. He was also to wake the Buniberzei when the time was right. To be truthful, humans do have a habit of destroying each other, and the world; while it's me, it's not surprising how Barthandelus was thinking.

Orphan clearly states that the directive was to protect humans, but also to destroy them. 'Too thin a shell and humans should not thrive, too stout a shell and humans should not die.' What follows was similar to 'Salvation and Slaughter; we were torn between two imperatives.' Not sure of the exactness of the quote's second sentence.

The fal'Cie were to protect the world, yes; but there would be a time when the duty would change and they would reverse roles. Ultimately, Pulse and Lindzei plus their children were to find the way to Muin - perhaps Lindzei (or Barthandelus/Orphan) put the pieces together to realize that death was the way to the door?

[TheAdmiral50]

Some you guys are really over thinking. Like really over thinking.

[Ariana]

Some you guys are really over thinking. Like really over thinking.

Over-thinking? A game that we know nothing about that has yet to be given an official release date? No way. :cathryn:

[Chat Noir]

Some you guys are really over thinking. Like really over thinking.

:mexicano:

[BluePumpkin7]

wtf? Are we still talking about FFXIII? Sometimes i feel that my copy of the game is different from everyone else. I´ve never heard of this things.
the game is really DEEP , if you read all the stuff in the datalog and read episode 0 & 1 and the translation for the FNC myth video you'll really appreciate the game
currently it's my 2nd most favorite FF:P

[.simon]

But remember, in the story it said Etro 'thought of her mother, who she so resembled'. In this, I'm wondering if the statues are not of Lindzei at all, but of Muin. Perhaps confusion upon Barthandelus' part? (I still wonder if Barthandelus + Menrva = Orphan = Lindzei, in some part.)

I realize that the Ultimania Omega said that the statues are Barthandelus' vision of Lindzei; but, it's normal for a child to crave attention from the mother or mother figure. Perhaps it was an unconscious thought or wish to be reunited with the mother.

But why would there be Muin's (or Etro's, since they look alike) statues in Orphan's Cradle? Lindzei created him (along with the rest of Cocoon's fal'Cies), so she's her mother. That would make Etro his aunt (Lindzei, Pulse and Etro were all created by Buniberzei) and Muin his grandmother. I just don't see the connection between Orphan and Etro/Muin, since he's never met both of them. At the time he was created, along with the rest Cocoon, Muin had already been defeted by Buniberzei, Orphan's grandfather, and men were living in Gran Pulse, so Etro had already killed her self and joined Muin in the invisible world. Pulse had already left too: Cocoon was created when civil wars were breaking out in Gran Pulse , and those happened after Pulse left the planet. The only god Orphan (I say Orphan, but I mean Barhandelus and every other Cocoon's fal'Cies too) has ever seen is her mother, Lindzei, because she was the only one still in the visible world (assuming Pulse went through the Doors of Souls when he left Gran Pulse, but anyway he's still M.I.A.). Either Lindzei told them about Muin before leaving Cocoon, or he's got no idea what she looks like.

I don't understand why it says "[Etro] thought of her mother, who she so resembled". Etro was created by Buniberzei, so that's her mother, but above it says Etro looked like Muin. The only way that sentence would make sense is if Buniberzei were a woman and she looked like Muin (so by looking like Buniberzei, who look like Muin, Etro would look like Muin too), otherwise that should have said "thought of her grandmother, who she so resembled".

Seeing as FFXIII's plot it's all about orphans looking for their mother, I wouldn't be surprised if Pulse and Buniberzei were women too.

I'll edit this post later and add the last bit of post that I haven't translated yet.

[mokaloka]

I don't understand why it says "[Etro] thought of her mother, who she so resembled". Etro was created by Buniberzei, so that's her mother, but above it says Etro looked like Muin. The only way that sentence would make sense is if Buniberzei were a woman and she looked like Muin (so by looking like Buniberzei, who look like Muin, Etro would look like Muin too), otherwise that should have said "thought of her grandmother, who she so resembled".
Technically Muin is the Mother to them all without Muin there wouldn't be Buniberzei and without Buniberzei there wouldn't be Etro.

[.simon]

I guess I should have thought of that; I was interpreting it too literally. Thanks.

[harafax]

It might be likely that Etro can connect with the seen world and the people is because of her sacrifice and the fact the humans were made from her, giving her a bond to them. Just a speculation, but who knows.

[Arianna]

But why would there be Muin's (or Etro's, since they look alike) statues in Orphan's Cradle? Lindzei created him (along with the rest of Cocoon's fal'Cies), so she's her mother. That would make Etro his aunt (Lindzei, Pulse and Etro were all created by Buniberzei) and Muin his grandmother. I just don't see the connection between Orphan and Etro/Muin, since he's never met both of them. At the time he was created, along with the rest Cocoon, Muin had already been defeted by Buniberzei, Orphan's grandfather, and men were living in Gran Pulse, so Etro had already killed her self and joined Muin in the invisible world. Pulse had already left too: Cocoon was created when civil wars were breaking out in Gran Pulse , and those happened after Pulse left the planet. The only god Orphan (I say Orphan, but I mean Barhandelus and every other Cocoon's fal'Cies too) has ever seen is her mother, Lindzei, because she was the only one still in the visible world (assuming Pulse went through the Doors of Souls when he left Gran Pulse, but anyway he's still M.I.A.). Either Lindzei told them about Muin before leaving Cocoon, or he's got no idea what she looks like.

The translation says 'he' for Lindzei and Pulse. 'Her' is for Etro, and of course Muin. That's why I don't believe that Lindzei is female.

Well, my own thinking is this: it was subconscious. I mean, if Etro thought of Muin, why wouldn't Lindzei or Pulse, or their descendants (except they all have a duty to their parent fal'Cie and Buniberzei.)

And the Ultimania Omega does say that Barthandelus' vision of Lindzei is not his true form; also, it does say that version is more sinister.

Personally: I have a feeling that SE is going to be ret-conning some issues when it comes to the gods. Though, I hope they will give us more about the mythology; I would love to learn more.

[Falsate]

It might be likely that Etro can connect with the seen world and the people is because of her sacrifice and the fact the humans were made from her, giving her a bond to them. Just a speculation, but who knows.
This is what I was thinking yesterday, but I lost most of my post.

He can't explain why Etro can interact with the visible world while Muin can't.One possibility might be humans are incarnations of Etro. Her blood existing within humans and having given them hearts can be seen as a palpable connection. The manifestation as vicarious human figures to a finite degree could serve as a viable explanation. Etro mollfiying lost l'Cie is probably her only means of interacting with the visible world.

This might be completely farfetched, but humans having a heart conflicting with l'Cie brand's of any fal'Cie could be another.

It seems simple enough to draw these comparisons, but I could be off by miles. All I could recover from yesterday.

[.simon]

One possibility might be humans are incarnations of Etro. Her blood existing within humans and having given them hearts can be seen as a palpable connection. The manifestation as vicarious human figures to a finite degree could serve as a viable explanation. Etro mollfiying lost l'Cie is probably her only means of interacting with the visible world.

This might be completely farfetched, but humans having a heart conflicting with l'Cie brand's of any fal'Cie could be another.

That's similar to what the guy was saying. I haven't translated that bit it yet because I'm busy studying, but, to put it shortly, the connection between Etro and humans (or the visible and the invisible world) is the heart (the chaos given to humans by Etro), which is also why the fal'Cie thought killing all humans was the right way to open the Door of Souls.

Well, my own thinking is this: it was subconscious. I mean, if Etro thought of Muin, why wouldn't Lindzei or Pulse, or their descendants (except they all have a duty to their parent fal'Cie and Buniberzei.)

Etro and Pulse are more connected than Lindzei, since the former was given a mission by Muin and the latter's mission was to find the Door of Souls (and Muin). I get what you're saying and you may be right, but I just don't see why Orphan would think of Lindzei. If the whole Cradle were built by Lindzei than yes, why not? But if that's Orphan's word, looking for his true mum/creator and devoting the Cradle to her seems more reasonable to me.

As for the translation, I don't know Japanese or who translated the trailer, so I can't say much, but it's not official. Not that I'm not thankful to whoever did it, but I'm not taking it as 100% true. Does FFXIII's analects refer to Lindzei as "he"? I don't have the game here so I can't check. Keep also in mind that he based his theory on the Italian translation of the myth (and I'm pretty sure it was translated from the translation posted here). Anyway, I understand your point. If Lindzei is confirmed male, than those statues are Muin. If not, I can't rule out Lindzei, because right now it's the one that makes the most sense to me.

I really hope they won't ret-con. It's possibile they will in the future (I don't know how many FNC titles there are, but they haven't announced them all, I'm sure of it), but ret-coning after only one title (it's sequel!) is really lame, if not unprofessional.

[futurejiver]

Why do people hate Vanille and Fang so much? It's weird that people wouldn't want them in the sequal because, in my opinion, it would make the story lack without them. They were such a HUGE part of XIII that without them in the sequal would just be wrong. I could almost guarantee they will be in the sequal. Maybe not human, but as crystals. Especially if you read the little book thing that comes in that special version of them game.

I believe Serah Will have a huge role in the sequal because of what she sees after the end of XIII.

[Oracle]

Why do people hate Vanille and Fang so much? It's weird that people wouldn't want them in the sequal because, in my opinion, it would make the story lack without them. They were such a HUGE part of XIII that without them in the sequal would just be wrong. I could almost guarantee they will be in the sequal. Maybe not human, but as crystals. Especially if you read the little book thing that comes in that special version of them game.

I believe Serah Will have a huge role in the sequal because of what she sees after the end of XIII.

*sequel

And, no. It'd end up just like X-2 with the whole "bringing the important character back." No no no no no.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY WERE CRYSTALLIZED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GIANT ICICLE. IT IS BECAUSE THEY SHOULD NOT COME BACK.

[PhoenixSun]

Why do people hate Vanille and Fang so much? It's weird that people wouldn't want them in the sequal because, in my opinion, it would make the story lack without them. They were such a HUGE part of XIII that without them in the sequal would just be wrong. I could almost guarantee they will be in the sequal. Maybe not human, but as crystals. Especially if you read the little book thing that comes in that special version of them game.

I believe Serah Will have a huge role in the sequal because of what she sees after the end of XIII.

*sequel

And, no. It'd end up just like X-2 with the whole "bringing the important character back." No no no no no.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY WERE CRYSTALLIZED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GIANT ICICLE. IT IS BECAUSE THEY SHOULD NOT COME BACK.
but really, when it was done in X-2 it was HORRIBLE. so much could've been done that wasn't. so now there are gonna be high expectations for it. so if they do it, please let that not be the only important thing, actually let be the least important thing if it ends up happening because really they don't need to focus on them returning right now

[futurejiver]

*sequel

And, no. It'd end up just like X-2 with the whole "bringing the important character back." No no no no no.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY WERE CRYSTALLIZED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GIANT ICICLE. IT IS BECAUSE THEY SHOULD NOT COME BACK.

I'm not saying they need to be brought back. But I believe there is more to them than what was said in the previous game. People are saying they dont want to see of hear people mention them at all.

X-2 was beyond terrible because of the fact that the story had nothing to do with anything. It was just some random game to show how many times Yuna and friends could change their outfit. It had no story. Even if Fang and Vanille came back it would not be like X-2 just for that reason. I'm not saying I want them back, but im saying I dont think that would make the game as terrible as X-2, you know?

[Arianna]

Etro and Pulse are more connected than Lindzei, since the former was given a mission by Muin and the latter's mission was to find the Door of Souls (and Muin). I get what you're saying and you may be right, but I just don't see why Orphan would think of Lindzei. If the whole Cradle were built by Lindzei than yes, why not? But if that's Orphan's word, looking for his true mum/creator and devoting the Cradle to her seems more reasonable to me.

Lindzei's duty is to 1. protect Buniberzei from those who would destroy him and 2. wake Buniberzei when the door to the invisible world has been found. So - Pulse and Lindzei must keep tabs. As for their closeness to Etro - I think that's the question. Also, I don't think any of this puts humans into the equation much if at all.

Again, I could be wrong.

Interestingly, the original story written by Nojima for Square Enix, went into such things as the feelings of the gods. I would love to have that part of the story!!! I'm a big mythology buff - real or made up. So, whatever that part of the story said, we never got it - maybe, hopefully, FFXIII-2 will do so.

As for the translations by Lissar, you are correct that she's a private 'agent' so to speak, not associated with Square Enix. Still, her translations seem smooth, and she seems to know what she's saying/doing - so I trust her. That doesn't mean you have to, I understand.

Why do people hate Vanille and Fang so much?

For myself, as I don't think I answered this, I do not hate Vanille or Fang.

Gameplay-wise, I do feel Vanille sounds odd - orgasmic. :(

I think those two are an integral part of the story - as it is them for saved both Gran Pulse and Cocoon - while with the others, destroying Cocoon.

Personally, I don't get the hate either - except as said, Vanille's voice is odd.

[Agent Dunham]

Why do people hate Vanille and Fang so much?

Probably for the same reason people hate Snow and Serah.

[futurejiver]

Lindzei's duty is to 1. protect Buniberzei from those who would destroy him and 2. wake Buniberzei when the door to the invisible world has been found. So - Pulse and Lindzei must keep tabs. As for their closeness to Etro - I think that's the question. Also, I don't think any of this puts humans into the equation much if at all.

Again, I could be wrong.

Interestingly, the original story written by Nojima for Square Enix, went into such things as the feelings of the gods. I would love to have that part of the story!!! I'm a big mythology buff - real or made up. So, whatever that part of the story said, we never got it - maybe, hopefully, FFXIII-2 will do so.

As for the translations by Lissar, you are correct that she's a private 'agent' so to speak, not associated with Square Enix. Still, her translations seem smooth, and she seems to know what she's saying/doing - so I trust her. That doesn't mean you have to, I understand.



For myself, as I don't think I answered this, I do not hate Vanille or Fang.

Gameplay-wise, I do feel Vanille sounds odd - orgasmic. :(

I think those two are an integral part of the story - as it is them for saved both Gran Pulse and Cocoon - while with the others, destroying Cocoon.

Personally, I don't get the hate either - except as said, Vanille's voice is odd.

Lol, maybe hate wasn't the right word, I didn't mean to upset people >_< Yeah Vanille's voice was very....odd. I kept getting really confused when Vanille would fight lol! Like she was enjoying getting attacked so much.

[Black Mamba]

but really, when it was done in X-2 it was HORRIBLE. so much could've been done that wasn't. so now there are gonna be high expectations for it. so if they do it, please let that not be the only important thing, actually let be the least important thing if it ends up happening because really they don't need to focus on them returning right now

Really, the trailer didn't give me too much hope about they've learned something about. Lightning making embarrasing hero poses? Yeah, whatever... :wtf:


Probably for the same reason people hate Snow and Serah.

Lies, because they're are a couple of nasty lesbians. That's why.

[Chat Noir]

...lolwut.

[Darthdevidem01]

Wait did the guy who did the huge speculation on the last page not know that the FNC Mythos is just a mythos.

FFXIIII is one interpretation of that, so if Lindzei is male in the mythos it doesn't have to be male in FFXIII and if Humans were made from Etro's blood in the mythos...that doesn't mean they are made from Etro's blood in FFXIII.

[Chat Noir]

Wait did the guy who did the huge speculation on the last page not know that the FNC Mythos is just a mythos.

FFXIIII is one interpretation of that, so if Lindzei is male in the mythos it doesn't have to be male in FFXIII and if Humans were made from Etro's blood in the mythos...that doesn't mean they are made from Etro's blood in FFXIII.

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/4228/asfg.jpg

[Darthdevidem01]

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/4228/asfg.jpg

Two can play this game!

http://www.gifsoup.com/view3/1313501/lightning-slaps-fang-o.gif

[Chat Noir]

No. :mexicano: